Interstate Construction Near Se Rancho Motor Lodge 1959
Retaining walls
Retaining walls--Design and construction
Roads--Design and construction
Automobiles
Antique and classic cars
United States--Utah--Salt Lake City
Salt Lake City
Photograph of retaining wall construction for the interstate next to the Se Rancho Motor Lodge in 1959.
Utah. Department of Transportation
Utah. Department of Transportation. Photograph of Interstate Construction Near Se Rancho Motor Lodge. 1959. Department of Transportation, Office of Community Relations, Subject Photographs, Series 25473. Utah. State Archives and Records Service.
Utah. Department of Transportation (Publisher--original)
Utah. State Archives and Records Service (Publisher--digital)
NO COPYRIGHT - UNITED STATES https://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en
Interstate Highway System
Express highways
Highway planning
United States
Map of Interstate Highway plans from September 1955. The Bureau of Public Roads (BPR) was originally a part of the United States Department of Agriculture then the United States Department of Commerce. The BPR is the predecessor agency to the Federal Highway Administration, a part of the United States Department of Transportation.
U.S. Bureau of Public Roads
U.S. Bureau of Public Roads. "National System of Interstate and Defense Highways" (Map). Scale not given. General Location of National System of Interstate Highway: Including All Additional Routes at Urban Areas Designated in September, 1955. United States: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1955. Text available to read at https://www.google.com/books/edition/General_Location_of_National_System_of_I/IePIGnzx3yMC?hl=en&gbpv=0 Map accessed on Wikimedia Commons, https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Interstate_Highway_plan_September_1955.jpg
The Federal Highway Administration (Publisher--map)
U.S. Government Printing Office (Publisher--print)
Interstate-15, Salt Lake City 5th and 6th South Dedication
Programs
Transportation
Utah. State Road Commission
Utah. State Department of Highways
Photograph of parked cars lined up along both lanes of a three-lane highway for the dedication of Interstate-15 (I-15). Passengers are visible sitting in the parked cars while some are standing outstide of their cars. Two standing persons hold umbrellas. It appears to be raining.
Utah. Department of Transportation. Photograph of Parked Cars at Interstate-15, Salt Lake City 5th and 6th South Dedication. Department of Transportation, Office of Community Relations, Subject Photographs, Series 25473. Utah. State Archives and Records Service.
utomobiles
Roads
Photograph of cars driving Interstate-15 in Salt Lake City after completion in 1968.
Utah. Department of Transportation. Photograph of Interstate in Salt Lake City. 1968. Department of Transportation, Office of Community Relations, Subject Photographs, Series 25473. Utah. State Archives and Records Service.
Aerial views
Aerial photographs
Salt Lake City (Utah)--Aerial views
Aerial photograph of Interstate-15 in Salt Lake City after completion in 1968.
Utah. Department of Transportation. Photograph of Interstate, Salt Lake City (Aerial View). 1968. Utah. Department of Transportation, Office of Community Relations, Subject Photographs, Series 25473. Utah. State Archives and Records Service.
Utah. Department of Transportation (Publisher-- original)
Interstate, Salt Lake City South Temple Structure Construction 1961
Photograph showing the construction of an underpass between Fourteenth North and First South in Salt Lake City in 1961.
Utah. Department of Transportation. Photograph of Interstate, Salt Lake City South Temple Structure Construction. 1961. Department of Transportation, Office of Community Relations, Subject Photographs, Series 25473. Utah. State Archives and Records Service.
Intermountain Indian School; Bushnell Military Hospital; Navajo education; Indian boarding schools; Brigham City, Utah history
Three women, possible students, standing outside at the Intermountain Inter-Tribal School. All are wearing traditional dress, (Left to right) Papago (pink), Navajo (dark pink and blue), Apache (yellow).
unknown
Box Elder Museum of Art, History, and Nature (https://collections.boxeldermuseum.org/index.php/Detail/objects/10060)
Box Elder Museum of Art, History, and Nature
Used by permission of the Box Elder Museum of Art, History, and Nature
Interview transcript with Afeworki Woldemichael in Logan, Utah, 2015 May 17
Eritrea; Eritreans; Families; Refugees; Ethiopia; Logan, UT; Culture; Tigrinya; English; Education; International Refugee Commission; Refugee Camps; Work; Eritrea-- Food; Afeworki Woldemichael-- Interviews
Afeworki Woldemichael talks about his family and home in Eritrea. He discusses his time in a refugee camp in Ethiopia, where he met his wife and had two children, his journey to the United States, living in Connecticut, Idaho, and Utah. He discusses his adjustments to life in the United States, and expresses hopes to improve his English to be better able to communicate with the people of Logan. He talks about what the future of his family will be like when his wife and children come join him.
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 1 CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET Interviewee: Afeworki Woldemichael Present: Afeworki Woldemichael, Heidi Williams, Magen Olsen, Berhane Debesai Abraha, Hilary Warner-Evans Place of Interview: Mr. Woldemichael's apartment in Logan, Utah Date of Interview: 17 May 2015 Language(s): Tigrinya; English Interpretation: Berhane Debesai Abraha: Live translator Interviewer: Hilary Warner-Evans Recordist: Magen Olsen Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-18RL broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe Transcribed by: Hilary Warner-Evans, May 21, 2015 Transcript Proofed by: Hilary Warner-Evans, May 25, 2015 Brief Description of Contents: Afeworki Woldemichael talks about his family and home in Eritrea. He discusses his time in a refugee camp in Ethiopia, where he met his wife and had two children, his journey to the United States, living in Connecticut, Idaho, and Utah. He discusses his adjustments to life in the United States, and expresses hopes to improve his English to be better able to communicate with the people of Logan. He talks about what the future of his family will be like when his wife and children come join him. Reference: HWE= Hilary Warner-Evans (Interviewer) HWEI= Hilary Warner-Evans' words being interpreted by translator AW= Afeworki Woldemichael (Interviewee) AWI= Afeworki Woldemichael's words being interpreted by translator BDA= Berhane Debesai Abraha HW= Heidi Williams NOTE: The interview was conducted with the assistance of a live translator, Berhane Debesai Abraha. The interpreter arrived about ten minutes later than the interviewer, photographer, and recordist but is present from the beginning of the transcript. False starts, pauses, or transitions in Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 2 dialogue such as “uh” and starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcript. All additions and added information to transcript are noted with brackets. TAPE TRANSCRIPTION [00:01] [Checking microphone. Indistinguishable talk from HWE, BDA, and AW. AW tapping mic.] HWE: Okay. It's May 17th 2015. This is Hilary Warner-Evans interviewing Afeworki Woldemichael, a member of the Eritrean community here in Logan, Utah. And we're at his apartment in Logan. Also present is Berhane Debesai Abraha, who is translating, from Tigrinya and Magen Olsen, who is doing the recording, and Heidi Williams, doing photography. So, can you give your full name again and your birth year? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya] AW: Okay. May 24, is birthday next Monday [laughs] BDA: [quietly] Sunday. AW: Yeah, my–. Yeah, next Sunday. Yeah. AWI: His birthday is May 24th [unclear] AW: Yeah. HW: [to BDA] And yours is twentieth. BDA: Mm-hm AW: May 24. HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: 1979 AWI: Yeah. May 24th 1979. HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: Afeworki Woldemichael. HWE: And what languages do you speak? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 3 AW: Tigrinya. HWE: Can you tell me about your family? AW: Yeah. HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: Okay. HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to Interviewee.] AW: Okay First, my brother, Nguse Gebreyohannes [??]. Gebreyohannes. And the last name, Woldemichael. Woldemichael. By Tigrinya, Woldemichael. By English, Woldemichael. [laughs] [02:16] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: Yeah. AWI: Yeah, his oldest brother is Nguse Woldemichael, but the way we write it is different so we– [Speaks in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: Gebreyohannes. AWI: Nguse Gebreyohannes Woldemichael. Okay. AW: Second– My mother born ten people. HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: Yeah. HWE: Wow. AWI: His mother have ten children. AW: And we have seven people. And three people is died. AWI: He's got seven siblings and three of his siblings, they died. Deceased. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 4 AW: Two brothers in the independence. [Speaking in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] AWI: One of his brothers, he died when we're struggling for independence. That means before 1991 against Ethiopia, the war. And the other brother died when we were defending our country in the second war between 1997 to 2001. And his eldest brother he died from too much alcoholism. AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] [04:12] AWI: Do you guys need the names of all his siblings? HWE: [hesitates] Probably not, but– HWEI: [Repeating statement in Tigrinya] HWE: –I don't know. AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] AW: Nine boys and one girl. [laughs] AWI: He got eight brothers and one sister including him as one of the ten. So now he got six brothers and one sister. AW: Yeah. HWEI: Five brothers? AW: Six brothers. One– HWEI: One sister. AW: One sister. HWEI: Or five brothers. [Asking question in Tigrinya] AW: Yeah. [laughs] [Speaking in Tigrinya] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 5 AWI: He has five brothers and one sister. Including him there are seven surviving siblings. HWE: And you have a wife too, right? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: Yes. HWE: Yeah. Do you have any children? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: Yeah. Two boys. HWE: And are they back in Eritrea? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: They are in the Ethiopian refugee camp. HWE: Okay. How old are your children? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: One, four years. And the other, [speaks in Tigrinya.] AWI: His oldest is four years and his youngest, he will be two in September. [06:04] HWE: What ethnic or religious community do you consider yourself to be a part of? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: Orthodox. HWEI: Eritrean Orthodox mission? AW: Yeah. AWI: He is a follower of the Eritrean Orthodox church. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 6 HWE: And you are a follower of the church here in Logan, right? Or, I mean, not Logan but in Utah. HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya]. AW: Yeah. HWE: Can you tell me about your birth county? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] AW: My country very good, has mountains. All the mountains. Utah, the same in Utah. [laughs] Good country. [Speaking in Tigrinya.] AWI: He says, Eritrea is beautiful. It has so many mountains just like Utah. It has highlands and lowlands. It has two seasons. HWE: And are you– You're from the highland part? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: He is from the lowlands. HWE: Oh, okay. So, what did your family do for work? Were they a farming family? [8:07] HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: They were irrigation farmers. HWE: Okay. HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 7 AWI: Yeah, they are irrigation farmers. AW: Yes. HWE: What kinds of crops did they grow? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya] AWI: Corn, Sorghum. Do you guys know Sorghum? It grows like corn but there's grains on the top. AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya]. AWI: And Dagusa. AW: [laughs] AWI: I told you, remember, it's used for local drinks. They raise it, but– [speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] [laughs] AWI: He doesn't know how to call it in English, but we just call it Dagusa and we use it for drinks, local drinks. And, is it called sesame? It's a grain. They use it for oil? Sesame. HWE: Yeah, sesame. AWI: Yeah, sesame. HWE: How long did you live in Eritrea? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: All day. [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: All my life until I moved to the Ethiopian refugee camp. HWE: How old were you when you went to the camp? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 8 AWI: He was twenty-seven going to twenty-eight years. HWE: Why did you leave Eritrea? [10:00] HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: There was no job and no job opportunities so I just wanted to improve my life and I moved for a another place. HWE: And what was the experience like of leaving? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: His home town is near the border of Eritrea and Ethiopia and it was a war. Eritrea and Ethiopia, they are in kind of semi-war yet. And where he raised, the area he was raised, he knows everything, where to go, which to go and he knows which front line, which lines are Ethiopian front lines. So it's easy for him. He can go daytime or nighttime because he knows who is where so it was not a big deal for him to cross the border. [12:00] HWE: So when you crossed the border, you went to Ethiopia. And were you trying to go anywhere– What was your final destination you were attempting to go to? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya]. AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: Yeah, when he leaving his home town in Eritrea, he got two options. His first option was to stay in the refugee camp and to work to America and other countries, maybe Europe, maybe Australia. If that option was not possible, his second option was to go to Sudan, Libya, cross the mediterranean and to go to Europe. HWE: Okay. What was your experience like in the refugee camp? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AWI: [Responding in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 9 [BDA's phone rings and he turns it off.] [14:00] AWI: He said, life was tough in the refugee camp because they didn't give them anything. At first, they were giving them only fifteen kilos of wheat. AW: Per month. AWI: Per month. Sometimes you don't have money to grind them and make them into bread or something. Sometimes he just boiled them, put salt on it, and just eat it. But after that, some of them, they get money, borrow it from friends and some of them they just get– Or they have to work for themselves in that area, farming, whatever they can. HWE: And did you end up working while you were there? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: Yeah, in the surrounding areas near the refugee camp they were working physical work, laborers, sometimes on the grain harvest. In seasons they work as weeders because we have to weed the fields by our hand. HWE: And, so with the money you earned by working eventually could you buy more food? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [16:08] AWI: So at first they were giving them only 15 kilos of wheat and a liter and a half of oil so they could not do anything with it. So they work and they earn money and they have to buy tomatoes, onions, and other stuff to make their own soup. But starting 2009 they started giving them around 800 milligrams of sugar, might be around two pounds of sugar, per month. And some times they were giving them some kind of soup. It's made up of wheat or something like that. So the only thing they have to do is work and earn money and make their own food. HWE: What kind of medical care was available at the camp? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 10 HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: The medical care, that was okay. But the problem was the medical care was provided by IRC. I think it's the International Refugee Commission. But all the doctors are Ethiopians and they speak Amharic. And they just wanted to speak Amharic. They don't want to talk in Tigrinya. And they don't know Tigrinya. But relatively they are okay and if you can communicate with them you get good medical care. [18:04] HWE: So was your wife with you in the camp? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: Okay, his wife is Ethiopian. He met her. She was his friend, or girlfriend. So they were living together when he got his process finished and he already got his visa. They make it official. They get married. [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: On September 20th, 2012 they make it official because he was coming here. If he has to claim her as a girlfriend that doesn't work. He has to marry her. But they met in Ethiopia in 2010 and they were staying together. HWE: So when you were in the camp you were living with your wife for most of that time? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] [19:48] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 11 HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] AWI: He met his wife in the Ethiopian villages because he was going over there to work. Then when they get pregnant, when she had a baby, he brought her over to the refugee camp because the baby is his. The baby is Eritrean even though he was born in Ethiopia. So he brought her to the camp and the baby has to register as a refugee like him. Then he convinced her, hey, better stay with me. If I get a chance to go abroad then I'm going to claim you as my wife. Then she stayed with him. But first, until she got her first baby, she was living with her parents and he was living in the camp but he was working outside the camp. And at that time he saved some money and he bought a carriage, something you pull with the horse. [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: But sometimes they pull it with a donkey. So he was working with it transporting stuffs over there. HWE: And can you describe your living conditions in the camp? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] [coughs] Sorry, I have to drink water. [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] [21:51] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: Yeah, at first life was so hard. Because of all the people over there. They speak the same language because they are on the border with Eritrea, but all cultures and the way we think is different. And we are enemies. We are at war. So at first we don't want to talk to them. They don't trust us. We don't trust them. But we [??] them. We work with them. We start trading with them, buying stuff from them. And they buy stuff from the refugees. And then we start to just become kind of one people. Nobody cares for the refugees and that. But at first it was hard. HWE: And were you living with anyone else when you were in the camp? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya] [23:45] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya] HWEI: [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 12 AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [26:05] AWI: Yeah, at first when he was crossing into Ethiopia in 2005, you know, when the refugees, when they, you go in the office, they call, they give you some paper work. They arrange to interview you and they give you some coin to get the wheat and the oil. But they just say, hey, you can get wheat and oil with this one but you are on your own so he doesn't have anything. He doesn't know anyone in the camp. So there was a tea shop over there and the tea shop was just made up of tin but they sell teas. So he was sitting over there and some of the refugees who came before him, maybe a year or so, they saw him and they told him, “Oh, you look like you're new. Where do you live.” And he said, “I just arrived here. They drop me here by a car. I have no where to go.” And they told me, “Okay, you can live with us.” And he lived with them for two years. Then after that he started working in the surrounding areas and he started saving some money and over there you just build your own home. Nobody owns the land. It just belongs to the refugee camp. So there were some people, they were going to Israel in the Middle East. So they just sold their home to him and he bought that home and he started living by himself. And in 2008 the refugee commission from the United States, they started registering to come to the United States and they got a group case. And they were waiting for their group case and meanwhile he met with his wife. They got a child. Then she moved back with him. Until he comes here, he was living with his wife. And he was talking about his two friends, the ones who accepted him first. One of them, he came to Denver but for some reason he deceased. And the other one, he didn't get to come to America. They rejected his case. I don't know why but he's in Germany. [28:07] HWE: How did you celebrate holidays when you were in the camp, or did you celebrate them at all? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: He said, it depends on your attitude and on your brain. If you got things you put it first, food and other stuff. If you don't have anything, just buy vegetables because they are the cheapest over there. Just, you have to do what you have to do. HWE: And did you get together with other people to celebrate at all? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 13 HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [30:14] AWI: Yeah, he said, we were refugees. Most of the time we lived close to each other, we hung out together, we discussed about what we have to do because we don't want to live on the welfare of the refugee camp. We want to earn money and improve our life. So during holidays we always shared what we got. Some people have money. Some of them they don't have. So if your neighbors or other people you know, if you know they don't have anything and if you know they are bachelors or singles, you just invite them, “Hey, come tomorrow. I'm going to make food or buy a sheep or a chicken, whatever you've got, or meat.” If they are families, because families they want to spend the holiday together, you just share what you've got with them. You tell them, “Hey, tomorrow is a holiday, I know you guys don't have anything. Here's this thing and celebrate the holiday.” But you share whatever you got. It can be meat. It can be food. It can be vegetables. Whatever. HWE: Did you do anything else besides just eat together? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.] [32:00] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [laughs] AWI: He's saying, we just get together. We make coffee. If they've got a woman most of the time the woman do coffee. If they don't have a woman, they just make it themselves. And we discuss about their cultures because some people they were from the highlands, some people from the western lowlands, some people from the eastern lowlands, that means from the coast of the Red Sea. And we discuss about the way they live in their areas, how they live, how they celebrate things, their culture and they just communicate and discuss about cultures and things. And I asked him, do you guys dance, he said, how are we going to dance? [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [laughs] AWI: They don't have record or a CD player or something to play the song, so you don't dance without the music. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 14 HWE: There were no musicians? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: There were musicians. They were funded by the IRC. Or because they were by the IRC. But they perform only on the holidays assigned by the IRC. It can be a Women's Day, a Refugees' Day, Eritrean Independence Day. But they don't celebrate all holidays. HWE: What kinds of instruments did they play? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [34:03] AWI: They played guitar, organ, but– AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya] AWI: –we got our own equipment. We call it Krar. It's kind of guitar. But there was nobody that could play saxophone. Because they had the instrument, but there is no person who can play it. HWE: And was the way you celebrated holidays in the camp, was that similar to how you celebrated them in Eritrea? HWEI: [Repeating in Tigrinya.] AW: Yeah. AWI: Yeah. HWE: Did you get a sense at all of how Ethiopia felt about having all of the refugees in their country? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 15 [37:15] AWI: Yeah, at first it was hard and they don't even like us, because they were even physically attacking us, because there were some people who lost their teeth. There was a guy who was hit by an ax. And they are refugees. The only thing they can prepare their food is by firewood. And there were some people who went for the fire wood and the locals they were beating them. They were telling them, “This is our wood, what the heck are you doing with it?” They're all women. They got their wood and the locals, they just put fire on the wood. They are not taking it. They just put fire on it, but after some time, the government, the Ethiopian government. It was governing all the locals. It was telling them, “Hey, these guys are refugees in our country. We have to help them. We are the same people. We've got some political problems.” But some of them even, they were born in Ethiopia but after the war broke, they were deported back to Eritrea because they were born in Ethiopia, by blood they are Eritrean. They were deported. But the government tried to discuss with the locals. And with the refugees too. So they start to get off it and they were telling them they can get benefit because they accept the refugees, they can have political benefit from it. And there was some refugees' organization from the Netherlands. They came to the camp and they were teaching the refugees how to improve their life, how to breed chickens, how to make beans because it was forest, and when they were teaching the refugees, they were also teaching the locals together. So the locals think, oh, so if we keep the refugees, we can get a lot of benefit. And they start trading with them finally. Their difference doesn't exist and they start living together. But first they were all hostile and they don't want them to be in that area. [39:08] HWE: How did you learn about the US refugee program? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [high pitched feedback noise 40:18] [40:59] AWI: At first, when he was living in Eritrea, he doesn't have any detailed knowledge of the refugee case for him to come to America. His main reason to go to Ethiopia was to go to Israel because he can cross through Sudan, but the border is so tough he cannot cross the Sudan. But since he lives by the border of Ethiopia he just crossed to Ethiopia. His idea was to go to Sudan, then Egypt, to Israel. But he was in Ethiopia and he was working on something, he was calling someone, things like that. And there were a lot of people going to Israel. To go to Israel from Ethiopia, you have to go to Sudan first, then cross all this desert. You have to go to North of Egypt, cross the Sinai peninsula, then you go to Israel. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 16 And it costs a lot of money. And so you have to get money from your parents if they've got some. Or you need someone or some relative in the United States or Europe because parts of it take a lot of money. And there are a lot of smugglers in the border between Israel and Egypt. But when these people who go to Israel, they get together over there and they start petitioning to the refugee commission for the United Nations. They tell them, “We're Eritreans. We've got a lot of political problems. We've got a lot of refugees in Ethiopia. You guys are not doing anything.” Then after that it is the UNHCR. I think it is a refugee commission. They collaborated with the United States and they started giving them group case and things like that. And they started immigrating to America. [42:43] HWE: Can you tell me about how you got to the US? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [laughs] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: Yeah. AWI: When he was in the refugee camp, when they are approving him to go to the United States they have to wait for a flight because they send you when they have empty flights coming back from Ethiopia. His first flight was on January 15th, 2013. And they cancelled it. And the second flight was March 5, 2013. They also cancelled it. AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya] [high pitched feedback noise 44:09] AWI: Then there was another flight scheduled for him on April 4th, 2013. So from the refugee camp he moved to Addis Ababa because the airport is in Addis Ababa, the capital of Ethiopia. AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] AWI: And they cancelled it again. AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 17 AWI: Then when you come to the United States you have to do medical check up for TB and other vaccinations. It works only for six months. Because they cancelled his schedule three times, his medical thing was expired. He has to retake it in Addis Ababa. [high pitched feedback noise 44:52 to 44:56] AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] AWI: After he get his medical, after 44 days, on June 18th, they told him, “Hey there is a flight. You're going to the United States on July 1st.” [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: Yeah. AWI: Then he came to the United States on July the 1st. [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: So when he land, he went outside of the Bole airport where he take a flight to Egypt. They got a transit. From Egypt they flew directly to New York. From New York they took him by a bus to New Haven, Connecticut and he stayed there for five months. [46:13] HWE: Were there other refugees on the flight with you? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [high pitched feedback noise 46:26] AWI: There were two Eritreans. There were Sudanese and Somalis too. HWE: What was it like living in New Haven? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: At first, the air is cold in Connecticut. He was raised in the lowlands of Eritrea and it's too hot. [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: Most of the time where he was raised, it was forty, forty-two, sometimes forty-five Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 18 degrees centigrade. [high pitched feedback noise begins 47:43] That means 100 degrees Fahrenheit. So New Haven was so cold for him, so as soon as he arrived, when he got his papers, he started working with a landscaping company his second month because he came here to improve his life. [end noise 48:01] Then from his arrival after five months it gets too cold because he came in July. In December it gets too cold, then he moved to Idaho. [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [high pitched feedback noise 48:35 to 48:37] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: Mm-hmm. AWI: So in Idaho he was working two jobs. One of them was growing with a potato company and another one was with a cheese company. HWE: And before you started work in the US, did you get any help from the government or any religious organizations? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Responding Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [50:00] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 19 AW: Yeah. AWI: They were taking food stamps from the workforce of that state, that means Connecticut. AW: [Speaking Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: And five months they paid him his rent. I think it's some government organization, he can't remember their name but something to do with immigration. [high pitched feedback noise 50:24 to 50:28] AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] HWEI: Immigration, immigrants. AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: He's saying they are everywhere in every state. When you are a refugee they just help you. They give you money and they help you. It was some kind of immigration services. HWE: And is there any way that your first few months in the US could've [high pitched feedback noise 51:04] been improved? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [noise ends 52:12] [52:20] AWI: Yeah. I don't know if they can do more, but they were giving us, they were paying for the rent. And for the first two months, they give us 200 dollar for food stamp each month, but after that they cut by 11 dollars so they were giving everyone in the whole United States only 189. And when he moved to Idaho, they helped him with his rent for two months and they're giving him food stamp for six months and after those they told him, “Hey come to the work force for some interviews and we'll help you with additional food stamps” but he told them, “Hey, I'm working and I can support myself. I don't need any more food stamps” and [high pitched feedback noise 53:05] he didn't show up in the interview. HWE: And was– So you went from New Haven to Idaho and was it any warmer in Idaho than it had been in New Haven? [laughs] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 20 HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [laughs] [54:04] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: He said, he was talking to his friend in Idaho. He told them, “Hey, this area's too cold. I cannot do it here.” His friend told him, “Okay, it's cold here but let's try it over here. Come over here.” And he came to Idaho. When he was coming there was a lot of snow coming down. And it was even cold even in the airport, [end noise 55:05] so he told the security, “Hey, I'm staying inside. I'm not leaving until my friends come back, show up.” Because his friends, [high pitched feedback noise at 55:09] they were not in the airport at the time he was landing. So he waited inside the airport to wait for his ride but it was too cold even in the airport. Then he started work then. Utah and Idaho, they are kind of the same in weather but they are different than Connecticut. Connecticut is close to Canada and close to the sea, the ocean, and it is colder than Idaho. BDA: [to HWE] So what do you think? You came from the west coast– east coast. [laughs] HWE: Me? About the weather? BDA: Oh sorry. The interview is about him not about you. [laughs] HWE: [laughs] AW: [laughs] HWE: How long have you lived in Cache Valley? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] [56:04] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: He's going on his tenth month. Last month, on the 13th , it was his ninth month. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 21 HWE: And did you go straight here from Idaho? HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.] AW: Yeah. AWI: Yeah. HWE: And why did you decide to come here after Idaho? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: Yeah, in Idaho he was working two jobs, almost 20 hours a day. He was sleeping just three hours a day. And they were paying him only nine dollars per hour. So he was asking friends for a better job with better payment. So came here. They work only between 9 to 10 hours in Hyram. And he gets paid 13.75 an hour. The job is hard, but I got time to rest. That's why he moved to Logan. [58:22] HWE: And you work at JBS? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: Yeah. HWE: Okay. What has it been like living in Logan? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: He said, I like Logan. It's safe place. I don't have to worry about my security. And I work. I support my relatives. I support my children and his wife. He's processing their visa. I hope they will come soon. And most of the time when you move from one state to another state you have to think about yourself and discuss with yourself, why are you moving? So I told Logan had a better lifestyle, lifestyle than there was in Idaho, better pay. So, so far, I cannot complain. Logan is a good place and I hope I will improve my life better than I have now. [60:31] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 22 HWE: Do you feel included in the community here? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: Yeah. Until now, I didn't encounter anything bad, not only in Logan but in the whole United States. Sometimes, due to the language barrier, there might be some conflicts but I'm sure it's because we don't speak English and they don't speak Tigrinya. But if I can speak English and explain my culture and my needs, I hope I feel included. HWE: What do you think could be done to make you feel more at home here? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] End part 1 of 2: 62:06 Begin part 2 of 2: [00:01] [high pitched feedback noise from beginning to end] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: He said, I think he needs to do more to study English and if he studied English, if he can communicate with the locals, he will tell them how we live our [??] things like that. And he learns the culture of the locals if they can communicate. If he can communicate with the other people, just respect each other and live including each other, life will be easier. But if we don't communicate with them, if we don't know the language, it will be hard. But the only thing we have to do is learn English and explain ourselves. HWE: Okay. How is your home here different than the one you had in Eritrea. HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [laughs] AWI: He was living in a house but now he's living in an apartment. HWE: [laughs] AW: [laughs] HWEI: [Speaks in Tigrinya to interviewee.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 23 AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [laughs] [02:20] AWI: There is a lot of difference. The utensils here and back home are different. Back home we use firewood to cook our food and other stuff, but here we use gas stoves. And for ready to eat things we use a microwave here, but over there, nobody knows what a microwave is. HWE: Can you tell me about your experiences with your landlord? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: We don't even know who's owner of this apartment. They heard lives in Texas, and some other company, they lease all the apartments. They got a drop box downstairs. Every month, they write the money order and they just drop it. And they don't know who takes the money or who owns these apartments. [03:58] HWE: So what happens when you have a problem like if your fridge breaks or something goes wrong? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: So all of the refrigerators, they have a contact number, so if something goes wrong, you just call that contact number and they deal with it. HWE: Oh, okay. HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: But so far they don't have any problems so they never use that number. HWE: Okay. What would you like people in Logan to know about you and other Eritreans here? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 24 AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: He says, here in Logan, those who can speak English, they are so few. But I hope we can learn English and discuss with the Logan community how they go, their political system, the way they live, their culture, and more else. And I hope we can communicate with them. But now there are only a few people who can talk to them. [06:14] HWE: If you could, would you go back to your home country? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: He cannot go. HWE: But if you were able to, would you want to? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: I don't think we are going back home but if the government or the system is changed over there, if they can allow all the refugees to come back to Eritrea, if he becomes a citizen, I might go for a visit, but I don't think I will go back. HWE: What are you most proud of? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [08:00] AWI: I'm happy because I'm healthy and I can work and support myself and my families. And, second, although I know only few English, I am proud I can– I will try to make friends and communicate with other people. HWE: What are your dreams for the future? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 25 AWI: This time I cannot tell you about my dreams because I am working on bringing my family, my wife and children, so when she comes here, we will discuss about our future dreams with my family, my wife and my children. And after, if she comes here, we'll both dream together, but if I dream something now and she dreams another dream, it'll be two dreams and one family. So when she shows up here, we can discuss about myself, about our future. We will buy a house and we'll improve our future life and future life of our children. HWE: Okay. I think that's all. Do you guys have anything you want to ask? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] [09:53] AW: Okay. [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: He said, I appreciate you on behalf of myself and the other people in Logan or Utah. Because you guys are working to get our culture and to take it to the people of Logan and other people. So I appreciate what you guys are doing. HWE: Thank you. AW: You're welcome. HWE: I hope we'll be able to do that correctly. Do you have anything else that you want to add? HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] AWI: I don't have any other things to add, but I hope in our, in my future interview, things like this or other stuff, I hope I will do it myself without a translator. I think I want to talk to any person, man, woman, it doesn't matter, but I just want to do it myself without a translator. HWE: Okay. So, thanks for agreeing to meet with us. And we have a release form to sign that has to do with putting the interview and the photos in the archives being used for an online presentation. HWEI: [Repeating statement in Tigrinya.] [12:07] AW: Okay. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 26 BDA: Does he need to write in English, or? HWE: No, you can write in whatever language you want. HWEI: [Repeating statement in Tigrinya.] AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] BDA: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.] AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] End part 2 of 2: [12:29]
Afeworki Woldemichael, 1979-;
Williams, Heidi, 1989-;
Berhane Debesai Abraha, 1980-;
Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project, FOLK COLL 59
Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library
Warner-Evans, Hilary, 1994;
Warner-Evans, Hilary, 1994-;
Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Special Collections and Archives, phone (435) 797-2663;
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project
An inventory for this collection can be found at : http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv67609
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project Digital Collection
transcripts;
application/pdf;
162008 Bytes
tir; eng;
Text;
Western Lowland Eritrea; Ethiopia; Egypt; New York, NY; New Haven, CT; Idaho;
Interview transcript with Eh Htoo on May 16, 2015 in Hyrum, Utah.
Karen; Refugees; Karen Refugees; Thailand; Refugee Camps; Burma; Burmese Military; Porter; United States Immigration
Interview with Eh Htoo about his life as a refugee in Thailand, serving as a porter in the Burmese military, leaving home, and immigrating to the United States.
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 1 CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET Interviewee(s): Eh Htoo Present: Wes Van de Water, Eh Htoo, Chit Moe, Bethany Hanks, Meagan Gill Place of Interview: Date of Interview: May 16, 2015 Language(s): Karen Translation: Interviewer: Wes Van de Water Interpreter: Chit Moe Recordist: Meagan Gill Photographer: Bethany Hanks Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-18RL broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe with PowerPlayer foot pedal. Transcribed by: Susan Gross, May 19, 2015 Transcript Proofed by: Wes Van de Water, May 23, 2015 Brief Description of Contents: Eh Htoo talks about his life being born into war in the Karen state in Burma. He describes his life as a teenager: his father dying, and then being recruited as a porter for the Burmese military, and his subsequent escape into a refugee camp (Mae La) in Thailand. He talks about his life in Mae La camp: going to school and working to collect bamboo, before moving to the United States (first Salt Lake City, Utah, then Cache Valley, Utah). Reference: WV = Wes Van de Water WVI = Wes Van de Water’s words interpreted by translator EH = Eh Htoo EHI = Eh Htoo’s words interpreted by translator BH = Bethany Hanks BHI = Bethany Hanks’ words interpreted by translator CM= Chit Moe Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 2 TAPE TRANSCRIPTION [00:01] WV: Okay. So Eh Htoo, tell us – oh, sorry; first off it is May 16th, 2015 (I almost said 2005) [Laughter] WV: It is six o’clock; we are here meeting with Eh Htoo. My name is Wes Van de Water, I’ll be doing the interview. Meagan Gill is recording, and Bethany Hanks is our photographer. And our translator for this interview is Chit Moe. Okay, so Eh Htoo, if you wouldn’t mind, could you tell us your full name and the year that you were born? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: My name is Eh Htoo, and I was born in 1983. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: And he is not sure what date (or days) he was born, but he only know – WV: Knows the year? EHI: Yeah. WV: Okay. So Eh Htoo, tell us a bit about your family, where you’re from. EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: I came from Karen state (which is in Burma), but my family, my relatives – they are all in Burma right now, in Karen state. WV: So your family is still in Burma then? EH: Not Burma, Karen state. EHI: It’s in Karen state, but it’s in Burma country. WV: Oh, okay; got you – sorry, so your family is still over in Karen? So if your family is still in Karen, how did you wind up here in the United States? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 3 EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: So I became a refugee twice, based on my experience: once when I was born, and the other one was – which he hasn’t talked about it yet. Okay. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: [Responding in Karen.] EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Oh, okay. So ever since he was born – no, I was born in 1983; ever since I was born, there was a war between Burmese military and the Karen military. I automatically became a refugee and went to a refugee camp ever since I was born. And in 1985, I came back to my Karen state – EH: Ninety-five. EHI: Oh, in 1985? EH: Ninety-five. EHI: 1995, I’m sorry. In 1995, I came back to my country because I heard there was peace, and it’s better to live in there. So I love my country, that’s why I want to go back. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: So after I went back to my country (which is in Karen state), it wasn’t what I was expecting: there wasn’t any peace, and there was still war going on. And when I was 13 years old I became a soldier. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Okay, so not a soldier, but I was – [speaking in Karen] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Actually not a soldier, but I was forced to become a porter. And that happened – EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: And that happened during the war, you know, so I had to carry bombs and stuff. Basically I was a porter – so they force you to become that – [speaking in Karen] EH: [Responding in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 4 EHI: So that happened once in 1995, and the other time was in 1998. [04:59] WV: So did you get out of the military then, and you became a refugee when you got out? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: So the point is – okay, in 1998 I was 16 years old, okay? At that time I was still a porter, you know, I had to do stuff during the war. So there was one thought that came to me: “If I die during the war,” – before that, I have a mom and an older sister. Because they’re female, the military won’t take them as a porter; and I was only 16 years old, and I was the only boy in the family so I was forced to become a porter. And then I started thinking, “What if I die during the war? There is no point – I can’t repay my family, nor can I help them in any way.” So I started thinking, “It’s better for me to go to refugee camp, maybe study there; and that could be a possibility to help my family, or in any other ways.” Instead of, “What if I die in the war? That is bad.” And my thought is going to refugee camp is better for me. That’s why I went to the refugee camp. WV: So you left your family there in the hopes that you might be able to help them, rather than staying in the military? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Yes, that was his dream; his goal. WV: So how long have you been here in the States then? When did you get here? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: In July it will be seven years in Utah. WV: So have you been here, in Utah, the entire time? So when you first – or where was the camp that you were at when you first went to the refugee camp – where was that? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 5 EHI: It’s called Mae La camp – M-A L-A-E – WV: M-A? EHI: M-A L-A-E camp. EH: M-A-E L-A EHI: Oh, M-A-E L-A – EH: M-A-E L-A: Mae La. M-A-E L-A – WV: L-A? EH: Yeah. Mae La. EHI: And I believe this is the largest camp in Thailand. EH: Yeah, largest camp. WV: In Thailand? EH: Yeah. EHI: Um-hmm. [08:03] WV: So how long were in – is it Mae La? Is that how you say it? EH: [Responding in Karen.] WV: How long were you there? EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Almost nine years. WV: And then how did you get out of the camp? How did you wind up coming over to the U.S.? EHI: So from the camp to the United States? WV: Yeah, from the camp. WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 6 EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Well the thing is, people from the United States, from other countries – they were, you know, coming to the refugee camp and wanted to take refugees to their country. And then I heard about it, so I applied for it; and then I applied for it on 2007, and I departed my camp in 2008. WV: And did they relocate you straight here, to Cache Valley, or did you go somewhere else first? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: It was in Salt Lake. WV: So that was first? EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Yeah. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: He lived in Salt Lake for four months, and he moved to Logan after that. WV: Okay. So what was your experience like in the camp? What was it like living there? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: So my experience in the refugee camp was just like most people, you know: people were going to school – I wanted to go to school. But in my situation I didn’t get to know my dad – my dad died. Yeah, my dad died and my family couldn’t support me, you know; they couldn’t send me to school because I was only person living in the refugee camp. And like most students, they have free time after school you know, to go hang out; me, I didn’t have those time. WV: So did you just work then, while you were in the camp? Is that all you had time to do was work, and not go to school? EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 7 EH: [Responding in Karen.] CM: Can we pause this really quick? How do we do that? [Recording pauses as Eh Htoo tells the children to leave the room] WV: We good? Okay. EHI: Well, I was a worker, and at the same time I was a student. I go to school for five days in the week days, and the weekend I work. You know, I need to work because I need to buy clothes, I need to buy candle, I need to buy books, I need to buy stuff, you know, to take care of myself: toothpaste, toothbrush; I mean, there is a whole list (I can’t name them all) – WV: Right. EHI: Those are the stuff I need, so I need to work on the weekend. [12:23] WV: So were food and clothes and those things not provided at this camp then? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Yes, they did provide (for example) rice, salt, oil – stuff like that, you know, just for daily basics; but clothes and stuff, nobody is going to give us clothes or toothpaste, or any other things so I need to make money to buy those. WV: So now that you’re here, in Utah, are you going to school, or are you working? Or both? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Like I said earlier, I was in Salt Lake for four months – WV: Um-hmm. EHI: And then after I move from Salt Lake to Logan, I started working here at JBS. WV: So are you hoping to bring your family here, or do you want to go back to Burma, to your family? (Or Karen, excuse me.) Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 8 WVI: [Repeating question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Well I do want my family to come here, you know, I do – but it’s not possible because my family, they grew up in the village and I don’t think they would like this place here, you know, Utah (not Utah, but in the United States). Although we have better education, better food, it’s not something they would like. And another thing is of course I want to go back home: all my family is back there, I want to go back home; but before I can go back I need to make sure that, you know, Karen state is safe and has protection. Right now that is not the case, so what I’m doing is I’m working – if I have a lot of money then I will send some to my family each month (or whenever I have extra money). WV: So are you able to still keep in contact? Like do you either call or do you write your family back home? WVI: [Repeating question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Well yes – I call my mom like every two months (or something like that), you know, I ask her how she’s doing and how is the situation in Karen state? Is it getting better? You know, just the surrounding situation in Karen state. So yeah, I do keep in contact with my family. [15:58] WV: So what is the situation like back in Karen? Is it, you know, is there still a lot of fighting there, or is it just still too unstable to go home? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: So in Karen state, you know, I can’t say there is war right now, and I can’t say that there isn’t a war right now, or that war is going to occur in the future; I can’t say anything. It can’t be predicted. EH: Yeah. [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: So like I was saying, you know, I cannot tell whether there is a war or not because if there is people who have more power than me, then they will always suppress us; if there isn’t people like that, then it will be safer. WV: So when do you hope to be able to go back home? I mean, do you think the situation will ever calm down enough that you can? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 9 WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: [Speaking in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Well so I do hope to go back there, but even if I were to go back, I would only stay there for one or two years – it won’t be permanent. If I were to go back there, you know, I want to help my family and the people that are in the village. You know, I want to teach them what’s the best way to live, how to survive – and only that will make me feel better (then I would come back here). Even if I were to stay, and even if there are lots of place to work at, but there isn’t any protection so I – yeah. WV: So even if you go back to your family, you would still eventually come back to the States? I know you said that, “Because I grew up in a village, it might be hard for them to adjust here.” But do you think it might be better if they came back with you? WVI: Say it again? WV: Sorry, that was kind of a long question. WVI: Yeah. WV: Do you think even though they might prefer to stay in Burma, do you think you would try to bring them back with you when you came back to the states? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: So yes, I tell my mom, you know, I want her to come here: it’s better for us, and our lives are guaranteed here, you know; but no, she just doesn’t want to live here. Well and the thing is that even though it’s not protected, you know, even though the state is in a war situation, my mom still wants to live there (even though she has to hide each day, it doesn’t matter; she believe that she can go through each day). [20:27] WV: So then what – I guess what do you plan on doing? I mean, do you plan on just going back periodically to visit, to help? Or what are your, I guess your plans after you’ve gone home? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 10 EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Well, yes. Let’s say as I go back to Burma, each time of course I will look at my surroundings (the situation). If it gets better – like if the Burmese military were, you know, not fighting other ethnic groups, not just Karen (and there are many, many ethnic groups in Burma) – so if the situation is better, and if they accept U.S. citizens, you know, to go and visit Burma (to get permission to live there for many years), then I would stay there like five or six years. WV: So have you gotten your citizenship here, in the United States then? WVI: [Repeating question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Yeah. WV: How long did that take? Or what was that process like? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: It took about four months to become a citizen. WV: Wow, that’s fast. WVI: [Speaking in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: So it took three months to apply for it, and then after that they will call me to go and scan my finger. And after that I took a test, and I passed. So, really quick. WV: So did you learn English when you were – it was Thailand, right? Where the camp was? WVI: Yeah. WV: So did you learn English while you were there, or did you just pick it up when you got here, to the U.S.? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 11 EHI: So yes, I did go to school back in the refugee camp, so I did know basic English; but of course my accent was different from other people, and my English teacher wasn’t an English person. And when I got here I had to make an adjustment, you know, I had to learn the accent and try to relearn it all over again. WV: So overall, did you have an easier time adjusting here? I mean, do you prefer living here – or was life, you know, okay in the camp? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] [24:13] EHI: Well I prefer to live in United States, because living in Thailand – I wasn’t a Thai citizen; they didn’t accept me and it’s not my country. Here, they accept me as a U.S. citizen, so I would prefer to stay here. WV: So you arrived in Salt Lake – did you move here, to Logan, for work? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Correct. WV: I know there is a fairly large community here, how do you like living in Logan? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Well it’s not the place that I like, you know, I think it depends on someone’s heart (I guess). You know if my heart is like living here, then yeah. So it depends on my – [speaks Karen] it depends on my heart I guess. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Some people doesn’t like to live here, but – EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: So as long as there isn’t any war – as long as there isn’t any fighting then yeah, I don’t mind living in Logan. WV: So you like it here because it’s peaceful? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 12 WVI: [Repeating question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Yeah. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: And another thing is everybody follow the rules here – they respect the rules. So, yeah. WV: Were you raised with any particular religion? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: [Speaking in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Oh, okay. Well yes, I mean everybody grew up – EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Everybody grew up with a different religion, but for me it was different, you know: I grew up believing in nature, I would say. You know, like a mountain – they might have a mountain spirit; for water they might have a water spirit. So that’s what I believe in. WV: So was that a more traditional belief in Karen? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: So I think it’s not just for Karen people, you know, the religious tradition; it might also be for other people as well. [27:08] WV: Let me rephrase: so was that, I guess, a common belief there? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 13 EHI: [Speaking in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Well yeah, that back then a lot of people in my village – they had the same belief as me, you know: they believe in nature in my village. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: But right now I think there aren’t many who still believe in nature because everywhere, you know, there are Christian, Buddhists, and it’s just surrounded by that particular religion (my religion); so there isn’t a lot of people who still believe in nature. WV: It’s not as common these days? EHI: No; yes. WV: So I guess one thing that I’m curious about is if there is one thing that, you know, you could tell people (either, you know, in the area, or the U.S.) – like if there is one message that you would want for people to hear, what would it be? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: So I think he is asking – there are many messages, but for what purpose? EH: [Speaking in Karen.] WV: Okay, so from your experience, you know, what you’ve seen and what you’ve been through, if there is something that, you know, you want people to know (either about you or where you come from)? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] [30:17] EHI: So basically, when I was 15 years old my dad died, and then after that (like I said) I was forced to become a porter. Because my mom and my sister was female, there was no way they could do that. [Speaking in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 14 EHI: So he is saying that he doesn’t feel very comfortable like saying – it’s not he is not comfortable – he has to stop at a certain point for me to translate that, it’s just not coming out. [Speaking in Karen.] EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Well of course I had many bad experience, but I’d like to share two, particularly. One is that when I was 18 years old (it was in 1998) – EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: I mean 16 years old. Like I said, people were coming, taking us as porters. And because my mom and my sister was female, they couldn’t do it. And the thing is like each house has to go five weekdays to do a porter, and if we don’t go then they will charge us $100 each day if we don’t go. We didn’t have any money; we were so poor, so I had to go do it. Everybody was so big and old; I was the smallest to become a porter. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: So you know, as I was doing porter – at the beginning I was told, “It’s only going to take ten days, and because you’re only like 16 years old we won’t put you in the front,” you know, “where there are higher chances of getting hit by the bullet.” That is what I was told, but that wasn’t the case, you know; it doesn’t matter you were young or old, I was put at the front. It doesn’t matter I was young or old, they gave me big bags, you know, (just like everybody) that I had to carry – they are all the same weight. And then what happened later was, because there was war going on, they told me at first that they were going to protect me and put me in the back, but that wasn’t the case. And after ten days – it’s because there was a war going on, they just couldn’t get any help and they didn’t protect me, or they can’t ask other people to come or take my place because I’m already, you know, at the front and it’s really dangerous to replace people. So, yeah. [34:32] EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: So like I said, after ten days you know, I was hoping that people would replace me with the other bigger and stronger person, but they didn’t. And because I was so small, you know, the military didn’t think I would come up with a strategy or a way to escape the situation, but I did. I thought of it, I didn’t want to stay here, you know; it’s dangerous. So as war going on, because I was only 16 years old and the military didn’t think of me as anything – and that is also when I escaped from that place. [Speaking in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 15 EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Oh, and as I was escaping I didn’t go straight to the refugee camp, I went back to my home: to the Karen state. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: So as I was escaping that place, you know, I also helped two old men. They were telling me that, “It’s dangerous, don’t escape this place,” you know, “there are bombs everywhere and you might get hit, so just don’t do it.” And then I said, “No, believe me; I’m going to walk at the front, so if there was a bomb then I would get hit first. Because I was so small, even if I get hit you guys can carry me with you. But if you guys get hit by the bomb, I can’t help with it.” EH: [Speaking in Karen.] [37:39] EHI: So you know, that day it was a run and there was when everything was quiet down, you know, the war is like kind of – everybody was resting. And at the same time we had a duty where we had to go and fill up water and bring it back to that place. And I told those two old men, “Don’t bring anything with you; just bring your clothes and a container to pretend like we’re going to swim to get water.” And that’s when I escaped from that place. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: As I was doing porter with the Burmese military and they were speaking Burmese and I was speaking Karen, and there was also some challenges between me and the Burmese military (because of language barrier). EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: In the process of escaping, you know, those two old men – they know the place and they know the roads; but at the same time they know there are bombs, but they don’t know where it is. So as we were escaping, they showed me where to go, you know, they showed me this is the way back home. So I thought that, “Let’s say if this is the road, of course there are going to be bombs.” So what I did was I kind of walked in a place where people won’t usually going to walk on it. So that’s how I escaped through those bombs. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Let’s say from the place where there is war going on, and the place to my house it would take about a day to walk; but because I had to try to avoid those bombs, it took about one and a half or two days. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 16 EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: The distance is about from here to Bear Lake. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] [40:38] EHI: So as soon as I get to my village, you know, I went to ask those people who told me that it’s going to take ten days and I won’t be put at the front, and then I went straight to them (it was in the evening-ish), I went to see them and was going to ask them those questions, you know. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: You know, the person that told me it’s going to take ten days, and I won’t be put at the front was like a leader in the village, you know; he is like – he is really old and he is really nice. I went to him and ask him, “Why was I put at the front, and why does it take longer than ten days? And why didn’t you replace me with other people?” So that leader, you know, that old man (that leader) – he told me, “I’m really glad that you escaped that place. I didn’t think that anybody would come up with a strategy to escape that place, because we don’t have anybody back here to replace any of you out there.” So he was glad that I escaped that place. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Starting then, starting from the time I escaped – you know, as I was thinking, “Although I escaped that place, they’re going to come back and force me to become a porter again. And if they do that each time, of course I am going to get older and older. And as I get older they’re going to, you know, force me to do much, much heavy work and much, much harder things.” So I decided, “It’s no use living here,” you know, “If I die out there, it won’t benefit me or my family or my people.” EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: As I was coming up with those thoughts, I ended up in a refugee camp. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Like what I said earlier, I asked my mom, saying that I’m going to go to a refugee camp to live, and she’s like, “Okay, you can go then.” [43:40] EH: [Speaking in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 17 EHI: So before I left my village, you know, I asked my mom for permission. She said, “Okay, you can go.” But before my left, my mom told me, “Son,” you know, “you can go there; you can go to the refugee camp, but I cannot support. Of course they’re going to give you pencil, books to go to school, maybe food – but if you want any other particular things, you know, such as good clothes or any other thing, there is no way I can support you. So if you want to go, just think about – just keep that in mind.” EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: And like I said earlier, I go to school for five days and I work on the weekend, and that’s how I support myself because I didn’t have any help back then. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Before I got to the refugee camp I already knew someone, and fortunately he went to the – there is like a place you have to put your name to get food – and he went ahead and put my name on the list, you know, saying that I’m going to be coming, I’m going to get some food. And yeah, I liked that idea, but in order for me to get food that person had to lie for me, you know; he said that my parents were dead, and I had to live that way. I didn’t like lying, but I had to lie to get food. I had to say that my parents are gone, and that’s one of the ways to get help, I guess. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Okay well like I said, in that program if you tell that your parents are gone – well in this case my dad was really gone, but my mom isn’t – then they put my name saying that my parents are gone, and in this case they will help me for 20 years (that was the promise). They gave me umbrella, toothpaste, toothbrush – EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Soap and shampoo, and a candle to study (so I can see in the dark). EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: And they gave us those every year (once a year). EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: [Speaking in Karen.] EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Okay, actually it’s not like that – for umbrella they give it once a year, but for the other five items, they give it every month. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 18 EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: And I’m really, really thankful for that, and you know, for helping me and giving me those items (those are really needed). [47:55] EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: That’s pretty much the end of my story, I guess. Like I was saying, I go to school five days, I work in the weekends. My work is – I woke up at three in the morning – my work is dependent on the season I guess. If people were selling this particular item this three months, and I will have to do the same thing. So what I have done was at three a.m. I went out in the deep forest and looking for bamboos (like small bamboos), and I have to you know, it could be rainy, it’s dangerous, I have boots and it was kind of dangerous. But yeah, I won’t get home until five p.m. in the evening, so it’s all day work. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: So bamboos are really heavy, you know; each day the most I can get is about 60 kilogram – [speaking to Eh Htoo] Kilogram? EH: Um-hmm. EHI: But the way that people are buying it, they buy it one gram is one dollar – not one dollar, but one Bahts in Thai money; so I would get about 60 Bahts a day. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: And that takes all day long: from three a.m., to five p.m. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: And if we were to compare it with U.S. dollar, it would be two dollars a day. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: And that would take around ten hours (I think) – ten hours of work. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Well this is pretty much it about my story. Of course there are other things, but they are not really important or significant. WV: Thank you for sharing. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 19 WVI: [Repeating statement in Karen.] EH: Thank you. WV: So that’s about all the questions that I have. Meagan or Bethany, do either of you have questions for Eh Htoo? WVI: [Repeating the statement in Karen.] BH: I did think of a couple BHI: [Repeating the statement in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Yeah, no problem. BH: You mentioned – well you talked a lot about escaping from the military – was that a common thing? Were there many people that escaped? BHI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Well it really depends, you know. For people who sees things different like, “This place isn’t right, we have to escape,” then yeah – it’s possible for them to escape that place; but for people who fear that “There are bombs, there are military, they are going to catch you” – then I don’t think they will ever come up with a thought of escaping that place. BH: What would have happened had they caught you while you were trying to escape? BHI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Well for me (I was only 16 years old), so even if they caught me it won’t be much of a problem; but for those two old man – yeah, it’s a big problem. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] [53:25] EHI: Well yeah, even if – let’s say the people were trying to escape and they got hit by the bomb, it just cause a problem for that leader in the village camp, and it cause a problem for the military as well. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 20 BH: Oh, thank you. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] MG: Good? EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: He is saying it doesn’t matter what country it is, but refugee occur mostly just like this, you know, because some country are not stable because there is war going on, there is no protection for people. I guess that’s how most refugee occur. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: He wants to ask you guys a question now. BH: Sure. EHI: So do you guys think that the more refugee we have, is that a better thing or not? Is that a better thing or not? WV: Do we think it’s good that we have more refugees here, in the States? WVI: [Repeating the question in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: So he is saying around the world – the whole world. Is it better if there isn’t any refugees? Or is it better if there is some refugees? WV: Well I mean, for me at least, I wish there didn’t have to be. WVI: [Speaking in Karen.] WV: I would much rather have people be in a place where they are safe. WVI: [Repeating statement in Karen.] EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: As you were saying, you know, you want people to have peace and you know, no refugees; but is there a way for that to happen? WV: I don’t know; hopefully some day. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 21 WVI: [Repeating statement in Karen.] [55:58] EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Do you know why there are refugees these days? EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: The whole world, yeah. Do you know why there are refugees? WV: You mean still? EHI: Yeah, still? Or why did they even happen in the first place? EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: [Responding in Karen.] Yeah, like why did it occur? I don’t know. WV: I wish I had an answer; I don’t know. It’s just some people do what they want, regardless of the price to others; there is no real reason for it. WVI: [Repeating the answer in Karen.] EH: [Responding in Karen.] EHI: Well I have an answer; I think you know, it’s because of three reasons why there are refugees: one is because of business and economy; secondly it is because of religious; thirdly it is because of politics. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: That’s what I think. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Well I think those are the answer, but I don’t know which is the right answer. I don’t know how to solve this problem either. But I just hope that, you know, people who has more power could maybe come up with an idea to get rid of this, I guess. EH: [Speaking in Karen.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Eh Htoo Page 22 EHI: Yeah, I’m sure that those are the three reasons why refugees occur. I really hope, you know, people who have more power can help, or maybe other countries can help. WV: Well and I agree that I think those are the causes; but as far as, you know, I don’t think there is a good reason why people do those things (is what I was trying to say). WVI: [Repeating the statement in Karen.] EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Well for my conclusion, I guess, of course I have many other things I want to share with you guys (but I don’t think there is enough time) – let’s say if I were to graduate from here in the States, you know, and let’s say if I was invited to the White House just to talk about these issues – it would be nice. But currently I am nobody, I don’t have an education; so yeah, I just don’t have the power or hope to even say that, talk about those issues. WV: Well that’s one of the reasons why we’re here, and why we are doing this. You know, we are one school, but our hope is that we can help you get your story out there, so that maybe we can do something. WVI: [Repeating the statement in Karen.] EH: [Speaking in Karen.] EHI: Yeah. WV: So thank you for giving us the chance, and for talking with us. WVI: [Repeating the statement in Karen.] WV: I think we’re good. [End recording – 60:25]
Eh Htoo; 1984
Eh Htoo
Chit Moe
Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project, FOLK COLL 61
Van de Water, Wes; 1989
Gross, Susan
An inventory for this collection can be found at : http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv67611
application/pdf
397801 Bytes
ENG, KAR
Karen; Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City
Interview transcript with Snay Tun on May 19, 2016
Karen; Refugees; Karen Refugees; Religion; Sports; Takraw; Cache Valley; Cache Valley Refugees; College; School; Utah State; Utah State University; Burma; Thailand; Refugee Camps
The interview took place in Snay Tun's family home in Logan. Snay Tun is a young Karen man in his early twenties. The interview occurred on the floor of his living room where we spoke for about an hour regarding his life as a refugee, moving to the US, school, and his passion for the sport Takraw.
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 1 CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET Interviewee(s): Snay Tun Present: Wes Van de Water, Snay Tun, Bethany Hanks, Meagan Gill Place of Interview: Logan, Utah Date of Interview: May 19, 2015 Language(s): English Interviewer: Wes Van de Water Recordist: Meagan Gill Photographer: Bethany Hanks Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-18RL broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe software Transcribed by: Wes Van de Water May 23, 2015 Transcript Proofed by: Wes Van de Water May 23, 2015 Brief Description of Contents: Snay Tun talks about his youth in the Umphiem Refugee Camp, moving to the United States, his life as a college student, his family, Karen traditions, and about the sport of Takraw. Reference: WV = Wes Van de Water ST= Snay Tun BH = Bethany Hanks MG= Meagan Gill Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 2 Tape Transcription [00:01] WV: Okay, so we are here meeting with Snay Tun, it is 11:22 on May 19th- um, I am Wes Van de Water, I will be doing the interview, Bethany Hanks is doing the photography, and Meagan Gill is recording the interview. Um, so Snay, if you would, could you tell us your full name and birth year? ST: Well, my name is Snay Tun, my birthday is October 13, 1994. WV: Thank you. So, I guess to start off, could you just tell us a little bit about your family, about- are you from Burma or Karen? ST: Uh, I am from Burma, but I our country is inside of Burma. WV: Okay. ST: We are Karen. WV: Oh so you're form Karen state? ST: Yes, Karen state. WV: Ok. So could you just tell us a bit about your family in the Karen state? ST: Well, I don't really know, but because they said there is a war, so we had to move over to another country. So, yeah. WV: Ok. So, did you grow up in a refugee camp then? ST: Yes. I grew up in a refugee camp. WV: Uh, which camp were you from, or did you grow up in? ST: I grew up in Umphiem. WV: Umphiem? ST: U-M-P-H-I-E-M WV: Where was that located, do you know? ST: It's in Thailand. WV: Thailand. ST: Yeah. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 3 WV: So, how old were you when you first went there? ST: Oh, I was like five years. WV: And how many- or how long did you live in Umphiem? ST: I lived there for nine years. WV: So, what was life in Umphiem like? What was it like living there? ST: Well, if, like, it was just- it was a refugee camp. As you see it's not like, not really free to go outside. We just stayed in the camp. But we do receive food and then medicaid. Yeah, like it's a hospital or children free to get medication for free. WV: So what were the setups of the camps like? Like what kind of, were, they, um, were they sort of like temporary buildings that could be moved, or were they, um, places built like this where they're not really designed to be moved? ST: uh, well, I'm not really sure, because like, you know the home was built with the wood- WV: Mhm ST: So, yeah, if they moved like that, to, like, like... um, broke down everything and moved to another one, because we're not sure like, it's still good to move or not, you know. WV: Um, so where or how did you wind up leaving the camp? And where did you go after you left the refugee camp? ST: After I left the refugee camp, I just moved to here. Moved to USA. WV: Ok. Um, so did you where did you arrive when you first came to the States? ST: Salt Lake City, Utah. WV: So what caused you to move from Salt Lake to Logan? ST: To Logan, at first my father he got a job here, so yeah. He like, told us to come and move with him in here and stay here. So, he could take care of us, like if we lived close to him. WV: Ok. Where does your father work? ST: JBS. WV: So and you said that you- so you moved here to Logan and you started going to school, is that right? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 4 ST: Yes. WV: What are you studying here? ST: Right now? WV: Yes at Utah State ST: I don't have major yet, I am an undeclared student. I just take a major, like general class. WV: Uh, what do you think you want to study? ST: Well, I think I want to study political science. [04:22] WV: Do you have any, what do you plan on doing, or what would you like to do after you finish college? ST: Uh well, after I have finished college, I'm not really sure what to do yet. But I thought if I get my degree, I might, like, plan to go to back to Thailand or something. Yeah. Or Burma. WV: What would you like to do if you moved back there? ST: Moved back there? Um, well, for what I'm thinking maybe, like, join some kind of like, community. Like WV: what exactly do you mean? ST: Like join some of kind community like, Karen community or something. WV: So would you, I guess would you be interested in, trying to you know, trying to help stabilize the situation in Burma, you know, try to maybe work with the government on fixing things? ST: Yeah, I plan to, yeah. If I got my degree. But I'm not really sure will study that. WV: Right, so when did you start school here? ST: I start school here since like 2009. I, like, well, I get in Salt Lake City, I stay there for 10 months, so I study 8th grade, when I move here, I studied 9th, and then, yeah. WV: So you lived in Salt Lake for 10 months? ST: Yeah. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 5 WV: Ok. And then you moved up here. So how big is your family? Is it just you, your mom and your dad? ST: No, we have like, I got two brother and one sisters. WV: Ok. How old are they? ST: The, my sister is older. She is around 27. 28. WV: What about your brothers? ST: He is 25. And another one is 23. WV: Ok. So, you're all a bit older. Adults then. Do they all live here in Logan? ST: No. Two stay in Thailand. One in Logan. WV: Ok. [06:39] WV: Um, so, let's see... so I guess- well, both here in Logan as well as um, growing up in the camps, did you uh- have any celebrations that you guys would do, like any special holidays? ST: Yeah, like, especially like birthdays, yeah, we celebrated. Also, like New Years in camp, we did it. But, in here, we have a really big space. But they did it in Salt Lake City. WV: Um, so, I guess how do Karen people celebrate birthdays? Do they do things very differently? ST: Um, not really different. But, like most of them kinda do it on Sundays after church. So, like, they just go and announce it at our church. So, after church, everyone gonna come back and like, at the house and but, yeah, we celebrated together. WV: Ok. Uh, where do you go to church? Or what church do you attend? ST: Uh, it's in Smithfield. WV: It's out in Smithfield? ST: Yeah, and its' in Smithfield. WV: What church out in Smithfield? ST: Uh, I don't really know what to call it. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 6 WV: I'm trying to think what that would be. I've only been there a few times. Is it, mostly just other members of the Karen community that go there, or is it, sort of a mixed group? ST: Uh, no, just Karen people. WV: Ok. ST: Just Karen that go there. WV: So it's a lot of, so I guess a lot of your celebrations are just within the community, so sort of everyone's welcome? ST: Mhm. WV: Um, so do you remember much, growing up in the camps, about maybe the political environment, or did you just, know that you weren't really supposed to go outside? ST: Well, I grew up in a camp, but you know sometimes they will tell us not to go out of the camp, or something. Yeah. That's how, but sometimes they let us, you know it's kind of difficult. If you don't have jobs, you need money, right? So you have to go out, but if like, they catch you, they just gonna take you away. Because, yeah. You are a refugee, so, yeah. WV: You were about 14 when you left, right? ST: Yeah, I was about 14. WV: So did you, I guess, what was the youngest age that people would work there in the camp? ST: Work, I think, maybe, I don't know, like 10? 12? I don't know, if you want to, you can, because there's no limit of age. WV: Ok. What kind of jobs are available for you know, 10 or 12 year old kids to do? ST: I, well, you know, just random jobs. Like, maybe, just going and like plant corn, maybe, yeah. When I was like, 12, like, they just go and like cut rice. Harvest. WV: Were the fields inside the camp? ST: No. Not inside. Like, just everything just outside of the camp. WV: Ok. ST: Because inside of the camp, just only going to be homes, adn then, yeah. WV: Oh, so they just had houses and things? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 7 ST: Yeah, house, school, and hospital. Yeah. Church, monastery. WV: So, like about how big was the camp? ST: How big? WV: Was it pretty small and kind of cramped together, or was it pretty spread out? ST: You know, some part is, like, homes are less sticking together. It depends on how you build them. Some people they wanna build homes that stick with each other, but some people have like a bit space. Small space between each home and another one. [10:45] WV: Um, so was the camp you lived in, was it one of the UN camps, or was it a Thai military camp? ST: It's a UN camp. WV: So is that how you found out about being able to come over here to the States was from the UN workers? ST: Well, I think, I'm not really know about that, because like my parents took care of that, so yeah. I think they might hear from their friends. WV: So when you first moved here to the US, how was it adjusting to living in Salt Lake? ST: Adjusting? Well, you know, first time when I get here, I don't really know, like live, or act. But, later I get used to it, after I go to school, and like, yeah. That's how. WV: So did you have, um, did you have help from the government, or any of the local community, as far as adjusting to living here? ST: Yeah, we do. Because, like when we moved here first, we received medicaid and stuff like that. WV: Was that through the government, or was that people in the community helping? ST: The government. WV: Okay. Um, so what about, um, living here up in Logan, how do you like it? ST: Well, I really like it, because I, well, in my sight, I see like homes, there's space between one and another, but when I live in Salt Lake City, I saw the apartments like kinda sticky. So I just Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 8 used to living in home that, like, live like with space between other ones, so I like it better than Salt Lake. WV: Yeah, Salt Lake is- [LAUGHTER] pretty packed. ST: Yeah. Sticky traffic. [LAUGHTER] WV: Yeah, traffic is really really bad. ST: Heavy traffic. WV: Um, so how has it been, um, adjusting to being a college student for you? Because you said you were doing 8th grade when you first arrived in Salt Lake? ST: Yeah. WV: So how has going to college been for you? ST: Well, going to college, well, it's kinda hard to say. You know, but, because like you have to study a lot, so yeah. WV: So did you learn any English when you were over in Thailand, or did you start learning when you were arrived here? ST: When I live in Thailand, I used to learn abcs and stuff like that, I learn the alphabet later. So yeah, just, yeah, later. [LAUGHTER]. WV: Ok. So you knew a bit before you got here? ST: Yeah. WV: Um, so, how does your, like your home here in Logan, compare to your home in the camp? ST: Well, it's a lot better. Because there, um, you know, inside of the camp, so it's like, the home was made of wood and stuff like that. In here like you don't build with that. So yeah, but it's a different thing. There just only from one family stay inside here in an apartment. So, like, people stay, like stay away from one another. WV: So, I guess one of the things that, you know, that we're looking at, and sort of asking the people we've been meeting with is, is there anything that, you know, you feel, is important for you to be able to share with other people here in Cache Valley? You know, either about your Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 9 experience, or your family, like is there anything that, if you could, um, that you would like to tell us? Does that make sense? ST: Mhm. Well, I think that living in the USA life, live under regulations and stuff. Then, it's good to be better for us if we follow them than if we didn't. Because we know that in the US everyone live under the rules, so we can get in trouble if we don't follow them. Yeah. [15:30 PAUSE FOR A FEW SECONDS] WV: So, as far as what you've been able to accomplish since you came here to the US, what things are you most proud of, that you've been able to do since you came here. ST: Well, um, I'm proud of like, I can speak better than I used to before. So, yeah. I'm proud of that, so I can like help my family and my brother who need my help later on. WV: So are you the one that, do you speak, um, are you only one in your family that speaks English? ST: Yeah. WV: Ok. So I guess one of the things that I'm just curious about is, what do you do for fun or in your spare time? ST: Well, in my spare time, I like to play Takraw, sometimes I read a book. WV: What was the first one? ST: Takraw. WV: What is that? ST: It's a game. Southeast Asian game. WV: Uh, could you tell us a bit about it? ST: Yeah, well, it was [clears throat] the ball is about this size big. It's like, well, you know, it's kinda hard when it's like not really new, it's kind of getting soft. So yeah, it's just like foot volleyball, you call it. You can only use your head, your knee, your side foot and front foot. But you can't use your hand. WV: So it's kind of like a cross between volleyball and soccer then? ST: Yeah. Volleyball. Like, yeah, volleyball and soccer, like just only three touch. WV: Ok. Um, so how, like, what are some of the rules to it, how does it work? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 10 ST: Three people in a team. Well, you can touch it only three times one side. So you can pass one, to you, and one to her, and then over the net. I can do this only three time and then put it into another side, like just over the net. Just like that. WV: So what exactly is the ball made of? I think I've seen maybe a picture or two, ST: Yeah, plastic. WV: Just plastic? ST: Hard plastic. WV: So how does it work with, you know, like scoring, how do you determine who wins? ST: Well, there's a score, so, like, if you score like, there's a line, just like a, yeah. A line. You have to hit inside of the lines. So, yeah, you get a score, or like put it- there's a lot of activity you can do, called roll spike, back kick, so yeah. WV: Um [LAUGHTER] I don't know anything about it... so you said roll spike? ST: Yeah. You flip and kick in the air. WV: Like, you flip through the air? ST: Yeah, you kick in the air. WV: Um, hmm. What kind of court is it played on? Is it cement, do you play in the sand or the grass or? ST: Well, you can play anywhere, maybe. Yeah, cement. On grass. But, you know, it depends on people, where they wanna play. So you can do that. [18:57] WV: Um, let's see. So does the net, is it like a volleyball net? ST: It's small. WV: In the one picture I saw, ST: Yeah, it's smaller. WV: OK. Just to keep the teams on opposite sides. ST: Yeah, because, you know, people kick the ball really hard. If you have about this size big, the ball can't go through it. The ball... Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 11 WV: So are you supposed to go, sorry... So you said it's about, maybe, ST: The ball is about this big. WV: So the ball is maybe a small watermelon size, ST: Yeah. WV: and the net is, are you supposed to shoot through the net? ST: No, over. WV: Over. Okay. How high up does it sit? Like, where does the net hang? ST: Five feet and maybe, yeah. Five feet or five one or two. Or um, WV: Okay. So it is very [LAUGHTER] sorry, I just find it really interesting, I've just never heard about this before. So it is very difficult to kick up over the net, do you have out of bounds, can you kick outside of-? ST: well, you can, like, if you kick it out of the line, so it's out, so you won't receive a point. WV: Mhm. ST: So you're supposed to get the ball and kick it inside of the line. Where they tell you to kick, because three people in the team. Maybe one people serve it at the back, the other one's going to give another people ball, so the other one is going to spike it. Like, yeah. WV: So, about how big is the um, I guess, the court? ST: The court? Yeah, well, probably about this wide. Maybe a bit wider. WV: So maybe, fifteen feet across? Roughly? ST: I think so. But I don't really get it down. I would have to check it on the internet. WV: So do you just decide when you're playing, is there a regular point limit, does it go by time? ST: No, just like regular point limit. WV: Ok. So what do you usually, what's the score to win typically? ST: 15 point. WV: 50? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 12 ST: 15. WV: Oh, [LAUGHTER], 15. ST: Yeah. But it just, we do it kind of like international count. So, yeah, if I get the ball, I score it. I got one point. If I get the ball, but I didn't score it. The point goes back to 0-1. But like you get the ball. You might, play like that. WV: So you can lose points? ST: No, you cannot lose points. If I score yours right? WV: Mhm. ST: Right now, I've got the ball, so I score into yours, so I get one point. Next ball, I kick it, but I didn't score it, so the point goes back to 0-1. If you score, then you get 1-1 like me. If you score another one, you get 2-1. WV: Ok. Gotcha. [LAUGHTER]. ST: If I got the ball, so you score my point first- WV: Okay. I think I got it. So is that, is that just like from the Karen or Burma area, or is that common all over Southeast Asia? ST: Maybe not all over. Because they play all over. Not just Karen people. Thai. China. Japanese. Korean. Philippines, Malaysia. Indian. A lot. WV: Hmm. I've never heard of that before. What was that called again? ST: Takraw. WV: How do you spell that? ST: S-C-P-A-K WV: S-C ST: P-A-K. Space. T-A-K-R-A-W. WV: T-A-K-R-O what? ST: R-A-W. T-A-K-R-A-W. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 13 WV: Oh, it's two separate words? Gotcha. So, how often do you play then? Is it something that you- ST: Well, when we have the time and we're not busy. And it's on a sunny day to play one. WV: [LAUGHTER] So you haven' t been able to play recently then? With the rain. ST: not really. When it's cloudy or rainy, you don't really play, because its' kind of cold. Then like we're worried it's going to be slippery too, because you just use only your foot. So yeah, that's why. WV: So do you play indoors in the winter, or do you guys not play at all here? ST: We don't really have a space, so we don't really play indoors, so we don't play. WV: Okay. Um, so what's the uh, sorry, I just looked up at your flag, and I see that you have these little pictures pinned to it, what are those? ST: No, that's- [LAUGHTER], we just pin that up. WV: So there's nothing to it. ST: No, nothing. Just only, we just, yeah... the flag. WV: So I'm kind of curious, because again, I've seen a couple of these, what exactly does the flag, or the marks and colors on the flag mean? ST: Um, well, you mean the mark? There is nine like, nine. Is that what you mean? WV: Well yeah, the lines, the stripes, and then the- ST: There is nine mark right. It means like nine place. WV: What does that symbolize? ST: Nine place. Like, nine place. WV: So just nine different places? ST: Yeah. Nine different places. WV: What exactly is that referring to? Like is it nine specific places, or? ST: Yeah, nine different places. So, but I don't really know. My parents just told me about it. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 14 WV: Ok. ST: So like, we learn about it from school. Nine different places. Or, maybe [LAUGHTER], I don't know. WV: And what's the, I think that's a drum? The yellow thing in the center? ST: Yeah, it's kinda maybe drum? Yeah. WV: Does it, have any specific kind of drum or is it-? ST: Yeah, specific kind of drum, like for Karen people. WV: Where is it used? ST: Used? Like, in it have, like many different kinds of it. Because like, there is not just only one. It has different specific names. So yeah. WV: So there's like different types of drums, then? ST: Yeah. WV: Are they all called the same thing, and there's just different shapes and sizes? ST: Different shapes and size. [25:55] WV: So what kind of, I mean, you know events or things are those drums used for? ST: You know, some people, they're gonna hit it while they announce things, or yeah. Sometimes, they gonna hit it, like, you know, depends on what situation they got. Like, maybe on the solar they're gonna hit one. So like there's a different drums on the solar, lunar or solar, or something like that. Maybe on a, maybe fast, or celebration they're going to hit, like a different one. It's not the same one. There's, like, many kinds that are different. WV: Okay. Um, what are those drums called? Do you know? ST: I just know in my language. [LAUGHTER]. WV: Okay, you don't have a translation for it? ST: No, no. WV: Um, so besides, so you have, Karen New Year is in December, is that right? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 15 ST: January. WV: Oh, January. ST: January first. WV: So what other, uh, do the Karen people have any other specific holidays? ST: Maybe, Independence Day. Independence, yeah. WV: When is that? ST: August 12th. WV: OH, that's my birthday. ST: [LAUGHTER] Really? WV: Yeah. [LAUGHTER]. So that's Karen Independence Day? ST: Uh-huh. I think it was the revolution day instead. Revolution. WV: Okay. So is that, is that what started the conflict with Burma? ST: Uh, yeah. That is. No, it's like the president, like, dead day. Like, they go to a congress, along the congress, like rest, they got killed. So, like they mark it as the revolution day. WV: So one of the things that I don't know too much about, maybe you could tell me, is, what exactly started the conflict between Burma and Karen? ST: Well, at first, like, after maybe British leave, but they left the land, so they thought like, maybe Burma, like, so, like, they can just discuss to each other, like if their land goes to like everyone, or something. But after the Karen go and declare, their like land, from Burma, they didn't ask for it. But Burma's like, uh, told them, I don't really know what to call it now. They didn't give the lands to like, so like, they have to fight. So, yeah. WV: So, Burma didn't honor the deal that was made, is that it? ST: Kind of like that. If we call it Burma, it's not right, because there's a lot of nations that is Burma, who's not soldier, you know? So yeah, there's a specific name for the soldier that we are fighting with. WV: Okay, so you guys make a distinction between regular Burmese people and the Burmese military? ST: Yeah, so if we call Burmese like, that's almost everyone who lives in Burma. So, yeah. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 16 WV: Um, what, term do you use to distinguish the two? ST: Well, uh, one I don't really what to call it. MSPDC, I don't really know what to call it. In our own language, or Burmese language, we call it like another one. WV: So you just have a separate term for the military? ST: Mhm. WV: So how big is Karen as a state? ST: Uh, I don't really know, but I use to learn it, but I already forgot. [LAUGHTER]. ST: Like several, eight nations inside of Burma, each nation go to separate one states, so like, you know, we have this big, each one takes a small one. Small one just is a small one after. WV: So is it organized sort of like the United States the country, but Utah is a state. Is it the same kind of thing? ST: Yeah, it's just like another state, but in here, but just everyone is like the same. Like same nation, same- you know like, but this place is different. Different nations that are separated from another one. So, like, everyone have their own state. They speak different language. Just not the same. The Karen are, but Burmese is just the dominant language in Burma. Everyone speaks it. WV: So do most people speak multiple languages there/ So does everyone learn Burmese, but you might learn Karen as well? ST: Burmese is the most dominant language. Because we call it Burma, so, like everyone is just supposed to know Burmese. WV: So how many languages do you speak? ST: Two or three. Three maybe? Yeah. WV: So what are the three? ST: Just my own language. And then English, and then, yeah, Thai. WV: Okay. And did you pick up Thai in the camp? When you were growing up? ST: Yeah. [31:39 BRIEF PAUSE] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 17 WV: Um, so, if things in Burma were, you know, not as chaotic, would you wanna move back, or do you like living here in the United States? [Faucet in the kitchen is turned on] ST: Probably maybe just, stay here for a while. And but I'm not sure about going back. Probably some time I might go back. WV: Would you go back to visit, or would you go back to live? ST: Just for a visit. WV: So you said that you had a sister who is still in Thailand, is that right? ST: Mhm. Sister and brothers. WV: So did they grow up in the camp, too, and just not leave? Or- ST: Uh, yeah. Because they already have wife and husband, so they just stayed there with their husband and wife. WV: Oh, so they just stayed with their own families. ST: Mhm. WV: Okay. [32:43 BRIEF PAUSE] WV: Trying to think. So is there anything else that, I mean, you, maybe that I haven't asked you, that you'd like to talk about or, ST: Uh, well, probably. [LAUGHTER]. Not. I, can't think of anything. WV: I guess, when, so Chit Moe contacted you about meeting with us, right? ST: Yes. WV: So what, I guess was your initial interest in talking to us? ST: Talking to us? Well, like... [PAUSE]. So, just like, if we talk about ourselves. If you come visit, if you're new, and you talk about our nation, or you question us so you know about part of it, so yeah. WV: Ok. Um, okay, I think that's most of the questions that I have, do Meagan or Bethany have any questions? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 18 BH: I, I have some questions. ST: Okay, sure. BH: Um, so, back- back to the game that you were talking about, it just sounds really interesting. Takraw, right? ST: Yeah, Takraw. BH: Uh, is that a game that you learned in the refugee camp? ST: Yeah, we learn it since we were little. We used to play. We just tried to play random things. BH: Okay, so you played that quite a bit there? ST: Just tried to kick around. BH: Um, are there other games that you would play in the camps? ST: Uh, soccer as well. BH: Just those two pretty much? ST: Mhm. BH: and was that because, you were there, as a young a pretty young child, right? ST: Yeah. BH: So- oh, sorry. ST: Go ahead. BH: So, is it kind of most of what you would do in the day, or did you have other responsibilities? ST: Well, because we're students, so we're supposed to read, but I was lazy to read. So, yeah. Sometimes, after we read, we just kinda go and just maybe watch movies. Except for when we had free time we just go out and shoot birds. Well, we never found, or when we never found them we just kind of go like that. When we have a friend we played soccer. BH: Okay. So it's cool that you kinda had different activities. ST: Mhm. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 19 BH: Different things that you could do by yourself and things that you could do with other people. ST: Yep. BH: And, um, I... I actually, I'm curious about this- ST: Oh, that's a calendar. BH: A calendar? ST: Yeah. BH: Is that from Burma? ST: Yeah, I think that's form Burma, or- BH: Is that Burmese written on there? Burmese or Karen? ST: It's Karen. It's,yeah, it's Karen. BH: Cool. Is that, I guess, is the calendar system the same? ST: Yeah, the same, but, you know, we have like New Years, and like, you know, sometimes we kind of like there's some another month, there are differences from USA calendars. So yeah, that's how we do it. Sometimes we compare. Sometimes which one... [LAUGHTER]. BH: Okay. I guess, I'm not really close enough to like, look at the, the material, but. ST: You can go and look BH: I can go and look? ST: Yeah, yeah. BH: Because it looks, um, okay. So it's like ST: There is- there is an English, I think. BH: Oh, there is? ST: Yeah, I think so. BH: Cool. So it, I mean, it looks like, uh, I was thinking maybe it was something kind of like your carpet here, that was, uh, or the rugs that was maybe liked stitched together, but it looks like something that's printed off. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 20 ST: Yeah, that one is printed off. BH: Okay. Cool. I might have had another question, do you have any questions? [To Meagan] MG: So you said you were going to church. ST: Yeah. MG: What religion are you? ST: Christian. MG: Okay. WV: So it just like a general Christian church that you go to? ST: Yeah, just like that. WV: Okay. BH: I just thought of another. [LAUGHTER]. ST: Sure. BH: So I'm looking, I'm trying to look at different pictures. And so I see up here there are these two photographs, are either of these, are you in these? ST: Yeah, I'm in the small one. My brother is in the other one. BH: In this one? ST: Uh-huh. When I came to Logan. BH: Yeah? SO these pictures are from when you first got here? ST: Bear Lake. BH: Oh, Bear Lake? ST: Mhm. BH: Cool, I was just curious about those. Is there, and this is just a curiosity, but is there anything about Burma, or Karen that you, uh, that you kinda miss? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 21 ST: Well, a thing I miss? I don't really know about what I miss, but you know, a good thing that I miss, because in Thailand there's a war, that we didn't get to face it. So yeah, good thing for us, so we didn't have to flee. Yeah, but, if you ask the elder people who used to live, like sixty or seventy years, if you ask them, they will you about the stories of like having to flee from Burma. Or like the army, yeah. If it like getting dark, they have to pack up things, and call up their family and start leaving. Yeah. WV: So your family was able to avoid most of that, then? ST: Well, I don't really choose to ask my parents about that. WV: Mhm. [38:56] WV: You don't really remember having to deal with any of that. ST: No, I didn't have to, because I was just born in the camp. And we couldn't really go anywhere, so, I didn't know like, what happened later. I know that we're like still a kid when it happened, so I didn't really know about anything. WV: Do you guys have any other questions, or- [PAUSE] So, I mean, I guess we're just about done, then. Is there anything else that you, maybe, again, that we haven't asked? That you'd still like to talk about? ST: Probably not. [LAUGHTER]. I don't really know how to ask questions. WV: I guess, maybe, okay, final question. How exactly are these made? These rugs? I've seen a lot of them. ST: Yeah, just like a carpet for us. Where we lived, we used to cover our floor with this. WV: Mhm. ST: Like, if you cover your floor with this, and it gets dirty, it doesn't like, get on the carpet. So you can clean it easily. WV: Right. ST: Yeah, so yeah. It's made with plastic, I think. I'm not really sure. WV: I was going to say, because are these from- did you bring these from Burma, or did you get them here? ST: Just get them here in a convenience store. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Snay Tun May 19, 2015 22 WV: So these would normally be, made out of this kind of plastic material then, or are these usually like uh, cloth or something that these are usually made out of? ST: Probably, I am not sure about them being cloth. WV: Or, cloth... what else do you make rugs out of? [LAUGHTER]. I clearly don't know much about rugs. Um, yeah. That's just about all the questions that I've got. So thanks again for being willing to meet with us. And I think we're good. ST: So you wanna see the game? I'll show you the games. WV: Sure. ST: Yeah? [Movement. End of recording.]
Snay Tun 1995
Hanks, Bethany
N/A
Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project, FOLK COLL 67
Van de Water, Wes 1989
Van de Water, Wesley; 1989
An inventory for this collection can be found at : http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv67617
Audio Recording of Oral History
98115 Bytes
ENG
Karen; Thailand; Salt Lake City
Interview with Afeworki Woldemichael in Logan, Utah, 2015 May 17
Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project, FOLK COLL 58
An inventory for this collection can be found at : http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv67608
oral histories (document genre);
audio/mp3;
71621802 Bytes
Sound;
Interview with Eh Htoo on May 16, 2015 in Hyrum, Utah.
Eh Htoo; 1983
Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project, FOLK COLL 60
Van de Water, Wes; 1988
An inventory for this collection can be found at : http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv67610
audio/mp3
58004379 Bytes
Interview with James Wirth, Logan, Utah, 28 March 2016.
Interview with James Wirth at the USU Permaculture Garden on 28 March 2016. The interview focuses on the history of the garden, definitions of permaculture, and future plans for the garden.
James Wirth
The original digital file of this interview is housed at the Utah State University Merrill-Cazier Library.
Elizabeth Winters
Interview with Ka Sin, Burmese Muslim Refugee. 2015-05-17
Burmese Muslim refugee; Family; Immigrant, Tradition, Cache Valley, Utah; Logan, Utah;
Ka Sin and his family live in a different apartment complex than our other interviewees. He works at JBS meat packing plant. His family includes his wife Ser Geda; daughter Kem Pu, 16 yrs; son Zat No 10 yrs; son Mo 20 yrs; and son Myo 14 yrs.
Ka Sin, 1967-;
Dilg, Cami, 1986-;
Har Be Bar, 1995-;
Allred, Deanna, 1965-;
Gross, Susan;
oral histories (document genres);
60429828 Bytes
bur; kar; eng;
Burma; Thailand; Japan; California, Utah;
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 1 CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET Interviewee(s): Ka Sin Present: Deanna Allred, David Giles, Cami Dilg, Ka Sin, Har Be Bar, Kem Pu[?] (Ka Sin’s daughter), Zat No (Ka Sin’s son), Mo (Ka Sin’s son), Ser Geda (Ka Sin’s wife), Myo (Ka Sin’s son) Place of Interview: Ka Sin’s home, Logan, Utah Date of Interview: May 17, 2015 Language(s): Burmese Translation: Interviewer: Deanna Allred Interpreter: Har Be Bar Recordist: David Giles Photographer: Cami Dilg Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-18RL broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe with PowerPlayer foot pedal. Transcribed by: Susan Gross, May 20, 2015 Transcript Proofed by: Brief Description of Contents: Ka Sin talks about his journey from Burma, to a Thailand refugee camp, to Japan, then New York, then California, and finally Utah. He talks about working and learning English in Salt Lake City, Utah, and then later moving to Logan, Utah. He talks about his life during the war in Burma and in the refugee camp in Thailand. He discusses his life in America, and the way his children are growing up here, versus the life they may have had in Burma. Reference: DA = Deanna Allred DAI = Deanna Allred’s words interpreted by translator KS = Ka Sin KSI = Ka Sin’s words interpreted by translator DG = David Giles DGI = David Giles’ words interpreted by translator KP = Kem Pu ZN = Zat No M = Mo Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 2 MY = Myo NOTE: [You will have to modify this as appropriate—whether using CommGap or in-person interpreter.] The interview was conducted with CommGap Interpretive Services; the interpreter joined the interview via a cell phone. False starts, pauses, or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcript. All additions and added information to transcript are noted with brackets. TAPE TRANSCRIPTION [Part 1 of 2 – 00:01] DA: Yeah, will you introduce who is here with us? I’d love them to stay. DAI: [Repeating question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: His daughter and then his youngest son. DA: Youngest son? KSI: Um-hmm. DA: [Speaking to Ka Sin’s daughter] And what is your name? KP: Kem Pu[?] DA: Kem Pu? How old are you? KP: I am 16. DA: [Speaking to Ka Sin’s son] And what is your name? ZN: Zat No. KS: Zat No. DA: Zat No – can you spell that? ZN: Z-A-T N-O. DA: N-O. DG: Okay; exactly like it sounds, actually. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 3 DA: And how old are you? ZN: Ten. DA: You’re ten. DG: [Speaking to Kem Pu] Okay; are you getting your driver’s license by chance? KP: Yeah. DA: Yeah? DG: Cool. DA: [Speaking to Kem Pu] What school do you go to? KP: Logan High. DA: Logan High? Good. My daughter went there for a little while. [Speaking to Zat No] And what school do you go to? ZN: Wilson. DA: Wilson? Yes. DG: Okay. DA: Okay, good. DG: Would it be okay if we closed the window? DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] DA: It’s just the sound – for the sound. DAI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.] DG: Okay. DA: Sorry; will that make it uncomfortable? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 4 KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Do you guys want him to open the fan? DG: Let’s try it. Yeah, I don’t think it will be a problem, but let’s try it. DGI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.] DA: Okay. DG: Alright, so let’s begin the tag. DA: Okay. KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] DA: I’m going to look at Cami’s notes about this. I liked what you did there. [Soft talking in the background between field school students.] DG: Okay, so I think – DA: Okay. DG: These are the questions that you want. DA: I’ve got the questions here. Alright, my name is Deanna Allred. KS: Yes. DA: We are here at the home of Ka Sin, a Burmese Muslim refugee that we’re doing interview for the “Voices 2015: Refugees in Cache Valley” (here, in Logan). I’m also here with Har Be Bar (who is our translator), and David Giles (who is our recordist), and Cami Dilg (who will be taking pictures). We are also here with Ka Sin’s daughter and son – are you another son? ??: I’m his son, yeah. DA: And what’s your name? M: Mo. DA: Mo? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 5 DAI: Mo. DA: Okay; how old are you, Mo? M: Twenty. DA: Twenty? Okay. So, and I saw your wife here too? Yeah, your wife was here. And what’s her name? KS: Ser Geda. DA: Ser Geda? KS: S-E-R – KSI: S-E-R – DA: S-E-R? KS: G-E – DA: G-E? KS: D-A. DA: D-A? KS: Yeah. DA: And this is your wife? KS: Yeah. DA: Thank you for letting us come. I’m going to try to translate a little slower – as I’ve listened, some of it’s gone a little fast and we’ve not gotten it all. DAI: Um-hmm? DA: So I’ll try to just translate slower – just a couple sentences at a time – and then I think that will go a little better. DAI: Okay. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 6 DA: So you can explain to him that we will probably be going a couple sentences at a time. [03:36] DAI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.] DA: And it is Sunday, May 17th, 2015. We have another son? KS: Yeah, Myo. DA: What’s your name? MY: Myo. DA: Myo? MY: Yeah. DA: How do you spell that? MY: M-Y-O. DA: And how old are you? MY: Fourteen. DA: Fourteen? You have a great family. KS: [Laughs] DAI: [Repeating statement in Burmese.] DA: Yeah, this is great. Okay, did I get all the tag? DG: I think so. DA: Okay. So we are just going to start the interview. What is your full name and birth year? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: K-A S-I-N. DA: Um-hmm. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 7 KS: Yeah. Birthday – December 18, 1967. DA: Fifty-seven? KS: Sixty. KSI: 1967. DA: Sixty-seven; okay, good. What languages do you speak? DAI: [Repeating question in Burmese.] KS: Burmese and Karen. KSI: Burmese and Karen. DA: And Karen? Good. Tell me about your family? DAI: [Repeating question in Burmese.] KS: Yeah. [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: He has a total family of six people in the family: four childrens, and him and his wife. DA: Um-hmm. Describe for me your religious community, your ethnic community; describe for me what it is for you to be a Burmese Muslim? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Living here it’s the same, but the ethnic group and religious group is a little different. DA: It’s a little different? KSI: Yeah. DA: In what way? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: How do we like practice the religion. DA: Right, um-hmm. Is there a place where you can go to practice your religion? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 8 DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Here they have it, but it’s a different language – DA: Oh, right. KSI: But in Salt Lake they do have it in the same language. KS: Yeah. DA: In Salt Lake? KSI: Yeah. DA: Okay. Tell me about Burma? You were born in Burma? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: What would you like to know about Burma? DA: Is it hot? Is it beautiful? KS: Ah, yeah. KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] [07:28] KSI: There are three seasons – DA: Um-hmm. KSI: Yeah, summer, rainy, and foggy. DA: Summer, rain and foggy – that’s good. We haven’t heard that before. How long did you live there? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 9 KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] KSI: Like 21 years. DA: Uh-huh? Twenty-one years? KS: Maybe 25 year. DA: Maybe 25; yes? Why did you leave? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: It’s hard to live because there are civil wars going around, and they are like ethnic groups (like Karen group) that didn’t get along with – DA: That didn’t get along with the government? KS: Yeah. DA: Or each other? KSI: Yeah, with the government, with the soldiers, and with the Karen ethnic group. DA: Okay, okay. So what was that experience like – leaving Burma? What was that like to leave your country, leave your home? DAI: [Repeating question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: He felt very bad, like because at first he had some educations in the city, and then he had to move because in Burma there are all still civil war. He felt very bad. DA: Yeah, I’m sure; I’m sure. Where did you relocate first? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: At first Burma to Thailand refugee camp. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 10 DA: Yeah. And then where? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: He relocated first in the Thai city for about three years and it did not work out, so he had to move to a refugee camp. DA: Um-hmm, okay. What was your experience like in the refugee camp? [11:07] DAI: [Repeating question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: They are like – KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] KSI: A lot of different peoples – DA: Um-hmm? KSI: And different situation – like sometimes they are same level. DA: Yeah. Describe to me what you ate (the food), what was the medical care like? If you got sick, what would happen? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: They gave free food from rice, oil, salt, and they don’t do meat or other stuff – because he also want to eat those meat – DA: Yeah. But there wasn’t any? KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] KSI: He had to find a way – DA: To get food? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 11 KS: Yeah. KSI: All the medical care out there are free. DA: Was it easy to get to? Was it close? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: It’s not that easy to go to the hospital because no transportation – DA: Right. KSI: I have to walk. DA: And it was big – it was a ways away? KSI: Um-hmm. DA: Yeah. KSI: Like 15 minutes. DA: Yeah. Describe your work and school, there in the refugee camp, for you. DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: For the school, there is no school for an adult (like him). And then a job – he had to go outside of the camp and work for it. DA: Um-hmm. Tell me what your life was day-to-day; so you would get up about what time? You would eat breakfast, or – tell me what a typical day was like for you. DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: He would wake up like early in the morning (like four) – DA: Um-hmm? And then that’s – what time would you go to bed at night? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 12 KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Like nine to ten. DA: Yeah, yeah; okay. What did you do for work in the camp? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] [15:15] KSI: He help with the road – DA: Okay? KSI: Fix the road, and also the stables[?] – DA: Okay. Do you still get up at four? KS: Huh? DA: Do you still get up so early? DAI: Now? DA: Yeah. DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Sometimes; and sometimes earlier than that. DA: Really? DG: Wow. DA: Tell me about the holidays (or the celebrations) that you celebrated in the camp? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 13 KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] KSI: Yeah. He wants to talk about the Eid. DA: Uh-huh, yes? KSI: In the morning he will wake up and go to mosque and pray, and then he will find new clothes for his children to wear. DA: Um-hmm. Someone else had said you needed a new outfit for Eid, is that right? KSI: Um-hmm, yeah. DA: Yeah. Okay, what was the government like – how did the government behave with the refugees? What was the climate there? Was it helpful? Was it combative? How helpful was the government when you were in the refugee camp? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] DA: This would have been Thailand I guess, yeah. KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Yeah, he don’t know about the government because he don’t see it; but there is a sharing[?] group that helped. And then sometimes they are good, sometimes they are very bad peoples. If you want to go out and work, they close the gate – they never let him go out. And then he would find a way to get out from the gate and then go find job. And then once he came back the soldier will stop him and then take some money. KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] DA: Why wouldn’t they want you to leave to go work? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: They thought that they already gave free food to the refugees, and then they thought that it’s enough for them. DA: Rice, but no meat? KSI: Yeah. DA: Was enough? Okay. Did you feel safe in the camp? Did you feel safe for you, and safe for your family? Was there safety there? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 14 DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] [20:45] KSI: It’s not safe because the refugee camp in Burma – it’s very close; sometimes the Burmese government will come and shoot and burn their houses. DA: Um-hmm, um-hmm; we’ve heard that story before, yeah. KSI: They want control the camps – DA: Yeah, and it was very dangerous. KSI: Um-hmm. DA: Yeah. How did you learn about the U.S. refugee program? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] KSI: There are a group that would take care of the camp that would come and let them know – like, “You can go register for the American, for Denmark, for Australia.” And then he – yeah, from there he come here. DA: Okay. Who helped you apply? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Thai also helped, he don’t know exactly – DA: Um-hmm? KSI: Yeah, Thai – that group also help – it’s called like OPE – DA: Um-hmm, um-hmm. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 15 KSI: OPE. DA: Tell me about coming to the U.S. – I’m sure that was a lot – very emotional – to leave; I’m sure it was scary. Tell me about when you came to the U.S. – where did you come first? What was that first day like? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] [23:50] KSI: It’s very emotional because totally like different people. In the camp, like people are not like human [laughs]. DA: Um-hmm, um-hmm. KSI: Yeah, because they are all dirty. DA: Um-hmm, yeah. Where did you first land? Where did you first come? Where was your first stop here? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: First, Thai, Bangkok (bigger city) – DA: Yeah. KSI: And then to – where was it? KS: Japan. KSI: To Japan, and to New York, to California, and then to Salt Lake. DA: Did you live in Salt Lake for awhile at first, or did you come right to Logan? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: He was in Salt Lake about one year – DA: Um-hmm? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 16 KSI: And then he also work at DI. His wife work as a babysitter to other people houses. DA: Um-hmm, good; good. So if you worked at the DI, did you get help from any churches or any other organizations in the U.S.? And what about – what was helpful, what wasn’t helpful about your assistance? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: The church helped – did the most. DA: How could that be improved? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] DA: What improvements could we make? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] KSI: DI help a lot with teaching English. He can only work for a year, and for the improvement – it’s not – he don’t need that much improvement because he think that it’s kind of enough. DA: It was enough? Okay; that’s good to know. How long have you lived here, in Logan? [27:44] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: About six years. DA: Yeah? KS: Yeah. DA: What do you do here? KS: [Responding in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 17 KSI: He work at Miller. DA: At Miller? Um-hmm. KS: Yeah. DA: What is it like for you and your family to live here, in Logan? Is it a good place, you know, do you feel accepted by the community? Do you feel the schools are good and helpful? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Compared to the camp it’s a very good place here; the community is also good – he can make friends easily. DA: Um-hmm. Do you like working at Miller’s? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] DA: Is that a good thing? KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: He can’t say, because he don’t know if he like or not because he have to work. DA: Yeah, you have to work – it doesn’t matter if he likes it or not – KSI: Yeah. DA: Yeah, that makes sense. What would make you feel more at home here, in Logan, for your family and for you? DAI: What was that question again? DA: What would make him feel more at home here, in Logan? KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 18 KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Now he don’t feel like this is his home because he is just – only him working, and then he have a lot of children. DA: Um-hmm, um-hmm. So he does feel like this is his home, or he doesn’t? KSI: He doesn’t. DA: He doesn’t? Why? What could we do – what would need to change for him to feel at home? Or where would he feel at home? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Government help him, but he know that he have to work for himself. And also, in the future, his son and wife maybe if they could help him work, so that way he could buy a house – DA: Um-hmm, um-hmm. Is there anything specific – like would it be helpful if there were more cultural events? Does he feel like he has a community here that assists him and helps him, you know, if he has to go to the grocery store or get gas, or whatever – you know, is there anything that we can do to help him feel more at home? Or is it just a language barrier, you know? I mean, what sorts of things would help him feel more at home? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] [32:26] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Yeah, he feel like – yeah, if they would help he would feel like he is part of the community. DA: Okay, okay; great. Tell me what is the difference between your home here, and your home in the refugee camp? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: It’s a big difference as like brown and the sky. DA: Um-hmm, um-hmm. Do you have a good experience with your landlord? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 19 DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Yeah, he has a good experience. If he need help he can call them – DA: And they’re very helpful? KSI: Yeah, they are. DA: That’s good; that’s good to know. What would you like the people of Logan to know about you? And then what would you like them to know about your family? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Like to let everyone know he don’t have much time – DA: Um-hmm? KSI: And then for his kids – like their friends, they could tell by themselves. DA: If you had more time, what would you want to do? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] [35:48] KSI: Once he was younger, he always interested in English, he always want to like, know. And now if he have time, he would like to take classes. DA: Learn English? KSI: Yeah. DA: If they came to Miller’s at lunch hour a couple of days a week and taught English, would you be able to go to those English classes? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 20 KSI: At Miller, there is no time because he only get 30 minutes of lunch time – DA: Oh. KSI: And then after that he have to go to use the restroom. DA: Yeah, yeah – just take care of yourself. KS: Yeah. KSI: Yeah. DA: Um-hmm. That makes sense. Would you like to go back to Burma? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Well he would like to go back because he has parents – his father (who is unhealthy), but he cannot go back now: his childrens are still young, and money problems. DA: Um-hmm. Can you communicate with your father? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Yeah, he can communicate; and he also send like $100-200 a year. DA: Um-hmm, to them; does it help? KSI: Yeah. DA: It helps them? Do you send pictures to each other? You know, does your father know what your family looks like in pictures? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: There was a friend who went back to Burma, and then he send one picture, and now he don’t know how to send it. DA: Um-hmm; because he’s not there anymore? KSI: Yeah. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 21 DA: What are you most proud of? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] [39:35] KSI: He is very proud of his childrens that come here and live their life; he can’t imagine like, seeing his childrens, like in the camp working in the jungle. DA: Um-hmm, yeah. What are your dreams for your future, and the future of your family? What are your dreams and what’s the dreams for your family? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: He don’t have his own dreams for himself, but he do have a dreams for his childrens to like grow up and get better jobs (not like him). He would like to buy a house here for his family. DA: Um-hmm, yeah. That’s good. Is there anything that I haven’t asked, that you would like me to know? Are there any other questions; is there anything you want me to know that I haven’t asked? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: If you like, he can talk about his experience more. DA: Yeah, yeah; I would like to hear more about your experiences. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 22 DAI: [Repeating statement in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] [43:27] KSI: In Burma, in the city, he lived with his family there (five people in the family) – [Speaking in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: He is the middle one. When he was younger he don’t have to do any work, and then when he get older he had to work. And then his older brother, like somehow with the soldier, got to refugee camp. DA: So where is his brother now? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Still in Thailand. DA: Still in Thailand? KSI: Oh no, Burma. DA: In Burma? So not in the refugee camp? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: No. DA: No? Okay. That’s all of my questions. David or Cami, do you have any questions? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 23 DG: Yes, I did. Let me see. So you said that when you first left Burma you tried to move to a city in Thailand? Can you tell us a little more about that, and what that was like trying to live in a city? DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: It’s not in the big city; it’s just like in the kind of city in the jungle, so like a lot of creatures. DG: Okay. So why did you leave the city? DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: There was only three months of work in a year, so it’s not enough. And then he cannot go back to Burma, so he had to leave. DA: Go back. DG: Okay. DA: Do you talk about this much with your kids – about your experiences in Burma? Do they know? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: He did not talk about it because he don’t want his childrens feel like sorry or feel bad, and then feel fear. DA: Um-hmm. DG: Now just one more question (for me): you mentioned that you were having a hard time sending pictures to your family? Do you need help figuring out how to do that, or is there some kind of problem just getting it to your family? DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 24 KS: [Responding in Burmese.] [47:30] KSI: Yeah, he would need help with it. DA: Okay. Does your father have a computer? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: No. DG: Okay, yeah; I know how to like send pictures through email, but if he doesn’t have a computer, that’s going to be difficult. DA: Um-hmm, yeah. DGI: [Repeating statement in Burmese.] DG: If you like, I can show you how to do that when we’re finished today. DGI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] [Laughs] KSI: Well they don’t even have computers, so – DA: He doesn’t have a computer, so it wouldn’t help? KS: [Responding in Burmese.] DG: Well I do know that if you can send him a letter, I know you can take your photos to like, I think Wal-Mart with print them out for you, so you can you know, just put them in a letter and mail them. I haven’t had to do that in a long time, but I think Wal-Mart would be able to help. CD: I think it’s more of a problem of a physical address getting it – DG: Ah. CD: To him. DA: Yeah. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 25 DG: Okay, I missed that detail. DGI: Yeah. [Laughs] [Repeating statement in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] DA: Cami, did you have any questions? CD: Yes, I’m going to move a little bit closer to the microphone. We’ve interviewed some other people that were also in the refugee camp, and they mentioned (like you did) the need to obtain new clothing for Eid. I’m wondering where you would get the new clothing from? CDI: In the camp? CD: Yeah, to celebrate. Yes, in the camp. CDI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: He had to find money earlier, yeah, and then he would buy it for them. CD: And would the clothing be purchased outside of the camp, or inside the camp? CDI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Inside of the camp. Inside of the camp. CD: I wasn’t sure, maybe you picked up on this – are both of your parents alive, and they are still in the camp, or just your father? CDI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: They are both alive, but not in the camp – in Burma. DA: In Burma; and it’s hard to get the things to Burma. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 26 CD: So you have family members still in Burma – are they more safe or less safe than if they were in the refugee camp? [50:53] CDI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: They don’t have to worry about their lives; because they are old, when the civil war is coming the soldier won’t take them because they cannot work anymore. DA: So they’re older – KSI: Yeah. DA: And so they’re safer? KSI: Um-hmm, they’re safer. DG: That’s a terrible way to be safe. DA: Um-hmm. DG: I have just one more question. When you left your home in Burma, and then when you left the camps, did you have any of your children with you at that time? DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: When he come to Thailand, he had to walk like three days and three night. He is not married yet; he got married in Thai camp. DA: In Thai camp. KSI: Um-hmm. So once he leave Thailand with his children. DG: What was that like, having to move to a new place with little kids? DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: It’s not that hard, he just want like all together safe, and get whatever he want to do. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 27 DG: Okay. Those are all the questions I have. DA: Do your children participate at school in other things? You know, do you go to the school to the things that they’re active in? DAI: Here? DA: Yeah, here in Logan? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Yeah, he don’t participate, but when his children still go to school he force them to go to school. And then only his wife participate in like parent-teacher conferences – DA: Conferences; yeah, that makes sense. Do you like American food? [54:29] KS: Hmm? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] [Laughing] KSI: He like hamburger – DA: A hamburger? KSI: But it’s kind of expensive for him. DA: It is expensive; it is expensive, yeah. KS: The pizza a lot. KSI: Pizza – KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] KSI: He says there it’s less expensive: he can buy a box and they’re whole family can eat. DA: Yeah, pizza – everybody loves pizza! [Laughter] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 28 KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] KSI: If he only have to eat American food, it will be more expensive – DA: Yeah, yeah. Do you grocery shop in Salt Lake, like most of your community does? Do you have to go to Salt Lake to get your groceries? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Yeah. KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Like two months. DA: Yeah, yeah; where is that grocery store? KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: He bought rice here, and in Salt Lake – I don’t even know the address – DA: Yeah? KSI: Like Redwood Road. DA: What’s the name of the store? KSI: There are like Cambodian store – DA: Cambodian store? KS: Chinese. KSI: Pakistan and Chinese, I think. DA: Yeah. I’m sorry you have to go so far. DAI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Well he had to go buy like half of the food over there, and then half of the food here. DA: Here? Where do you like to shop here? Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 29 DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Like Smith’s. DA: Smith’s – that’s where we all go, yeah. [Laughter] Good; good. I don’t know that I have any more questions. You have been very delightful. Your family is beautiful. DG: Thank you. DAI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.] KS: Thanks. DA: So we just have some forms to sign. Oh – DAI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.] KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] DA: This just says we can use the interview for the presentation. DAI: Oh, this is already signed. DA: Oh yeah, yeah; sorry. Yeah, I can’t give you that one [laughs]. KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] DA: Yeah; this just says that we can use the recording: it will be stored at Utah State University. And then do you mind if we take pictures? DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.] [57:58] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 30 KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] KSI: Yeah, you can take pictures. KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] KSI: [Responding in Burmese.] DG: And we do need you to fill out all the blanks, and we need to talk about that last one a little bit – so when you’re done with the rest, we’ll talk about it. [Background discussion between the folks present; both in English and Burmese.] Okay, do we want to end the tape? DA: So we’re just making sure we have consent to use the audio tape and the pictures in the Special Collections, and he understands. DAI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: Yeah. DA: Yep. KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.] KS: [Speaking in Burmese.] DA: Oh, we don’t need that one. [Discussion between Ka Sin and translator in Burmese.] KSI: Is it in English? [More discussion between Ka Sin and translator in Burmese.] KSI: I can’t read Burmese [laughs]. DG: Oh, you can’t? KSI: I can’t. Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 31 DA: It’s beautiful; I mean, look how pretty it is. Do your children – do you read Burmese? Do you speak much Burmese? [Discussion between Ka Sin and translator in Burmese as they fill out the information and release forms.] CD: I’m just going to take a few photos to make sure that the light is okay, if that’s alright? DG: And email, if you have one. DGI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] KSI: No, he doesn’t have email, so – KS: Is that finished? DG: That last one is – I would love if you could translate for me – that last blank is restrictions: just if there is something you don’t want us to do, you can write it there. DGI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.] DG: So if you don’t want us to share your name, or share your photo, or something like that. DGI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.] KS: [Responding in Burmese.] DA: Okay, this is the celebration – I know it’s in English, but maybe your kids could translate that for you. This is what – thank you – this is where we will be showing the photos and the presentation that we put together for the community. DAI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.] [End part 1 of 2 – 60:02] [Part 2 of 2 – 00:01] KS: If he is, he will come. DA: Okay, good. Thank you. [More background discussion with the folks present.] Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Ka Sin Page 32 [Speaking to Ka Sin’s child] So will you be a senior next year, or a junior? A senior? And how do you like Harry Potter? ZN: It’s a great story. DA: It’s a great story; yeah, it’s my favorite [laughs]. CD: You don’t mind if I take some photos? DG: Oh, the recording is still going. DA: The recording needs to – yeah, we’re done with the recording. Thank you. DG: Alright, we are done with the interview. [End Part 2 of 2 – 00:50]
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Interview with Kahsay Berhe Gebremedhin, Paintings in Background
Refugees; Eritrea; Logan, UT; Logan Public Library; Kahsay Berhe Gebremedhin-- Photographs; Interviews
Kahsay Berhe Gebremedhin is speaking during the interview while Magen Olsen and Berhane Debesai Abraha watch him attentively. There are a couple paintings in the background.
Gebremedhin, Kahsay Berhe, 1971-
Warner-Evans, Hilary, 1994-
Abraha, Berhane Debesai, 1980-
Photographs;
image/jpeg;; image/jpeg;
1038906 Bytes
tir; eng
Image; Still Image;
Eritrea; Ethiopia; Frankfurt, Germany; Maryland, United States;
Interview with Leland and Barbara Larsen where they talk about Dr. Magee
Leland Larsen; Barbara Larsen; Dr. Magee
An audio interview with Leland and Barbara Larsen on May 10, 2007 where they talk about Dr. Magee as they look over photos. Excerpt from full interview.
Leland Larsen (interviewee); Barbara Larsen (interviewee)
Utah State University Special Collections & Archives, Folk Collection 67
Richard Watkins (interviewer)
Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections & Archives (email: SCAWeb@usu.edu)
Mendon, Utah
Interview with Leland and LaVay Larsen about Mendon, Utah
Leland Larsen; LaVay Larsen; Mendon; Utah; May Day; Dating
A video interview with Leland and LaVay Larsen where they talk about growing up in Mendon, Utah, May Day, dating.
Leland and LaVay Larsen (interviewee)
USU Special Collections & Archives, Folklore Collection 67
Paul Willie